exploiting for points creating multiple chars in single race

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Hilbert wrote:

ToU says you should report exploits and not abuse them.

It pleases me greatly to see Hilbert has started abusing this. Hip hip hooray!

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Lyralei wrote:

It disturbs me that you can hide your race statistics. I don't like the whole concept of setting profiles to private. Characters I can understand, so you don't get harassed. But race performance?

As it stands, bot farms might very well be grinding to Andvarius and other such easy to reach valuable race rewards for the next league as if they weren't already, hidden behind a wall of "This profile is set to private"


How to report if you can just hide it lol. And not as if we haven't all reported that obvious exploiter in the top 20 (he's hidden his profile already).

poestatistics.com has all the info, so we can check there, and GGG can check the hidden profiles. So it could be worse.


AFAICT 2 of the top 20 are abusing this (with hidden profiles, there may be others not hiding). And there's a 3rd hidden profile with very suspicious stats. The guy has 234 characters, good results (top 25's in races), and yet has only TEN deaths. That seems unfathomable. Any ideas how that's possible? Just poestats being buggy about death stats?

Best that I can make happen is for someone to raise it in one of their meetings to discuss which they might have already. I'll ask again.

Publicly silent probably indicates trying to sort it out hopefully. We'll know soon enough, along with the whole zoomhack and potential botting (to farm andvarius/etc) that might be going on.

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unsane wrote:

That seems unfathomable. Any ideas how that's possible? Just poestats being buggy about death stats?

That one guy who never fails to attend a race and if my memory serves me well, has always gotten exactly 15 14 13 AND 12 for any 60-100 race?

I did it to get a DD in season 5 and an Andvarius in season 6. I also learned a ton about how to level in the first two acts as a consequence. Being that I am in my first league in PoE... I didn't even realize I was doing anything wrong until reading recent posts on the race feedback forum.

I could only see punishing this by removing points if this was outlined explicitly as a punishable exploit.

The race rules state:

"You should not make multiple characters in a league to attempt to receive multiple level-threshold prizes."

Not very explicit. "Should not" doesn't scream, "Doing this is an exploit that will result in the loss of all points generated in this fashion!" to me. I didn't even realize this was a rule being that you CAN get multiple level-threshold prizes by creating multiple characters. Just assumed it was a way for less experienced racers to stand a chance at getting some race rewards.

Best solution would be to simply only award points based on the highest level character in the league for future races. Revoking points at this point would be pretty brutal being that it is presumably a flaw in race structuring on GGGs end. Asking players to pay the price for unintended point generation that has been going on since the release of the game is akin to saying, RIP TIME.

I can see why people don't like this. Just needs to be fixed on GGGs end. Players will work with any advantage they are given when presented with vague rules with no official statement one way or the other.

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Lyralei wrote:

Best that I can make happen is for someone to raise it in one of their meetings to discuss which they might have already. I'll ask again.

Publicly silent probably indicates trying to sort it out hopefully. We'll know soon enough, along with the whole zoomhack and potential botting (to farm andvarius/etc) that might be going on.

"

unsane wrote:

That seems unfathomable. Any ideas how that's possible? Just poestats being buggy about death stats?

That one guy who never fails to attend a race and if my memory serves me well, has always gotten exactly 15 14 13 AND 12 for any 60-100 race?

They have raised it in a meeting, it's very seriously being discussed.

I also noted that I have 100% confirmation that some people are botting for rewards.

One of the racers has only missed 5 races, one of them being the One Week Nemesis which he didn't even CREATE a character in. Hell, he doesn't even have Dominus Normal killed achievement, only the Scion unlocked. The others I can't remember off the top of my head - I probably should make a list at some point when I have the time again.

I did note that there were 12 of the top 75 players doing this multicharacter exploit about a week ago, I don't know if the statistic has changed since then (its been about a week).

I did not include anyone that has done it in Descent Champions as those can happen by mistake, same with EL

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TheuberClips wrote:

They have raised it in a meeting, it's very seriously being discussed.

I also noted that I have 100% confirmation that some people are botting for rewards.

Good. So I just confirmed with someone as well.

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It pleases me greatly to see Hilbert has started abusing this. Hip hip hooray!

I died 15 mins in because of dumb stunlockmechanics so instead of getting 6 points I decided to get 10. I died in Anger current race but because I got bored of normal mode races I don't reroll.

You want me to exploit it for good? Then you will see me getting 14+ points per race. I am a far better racer than those exploiting it.
I would greatly prefer a race where you could only play 1 character because that would greatly fuck up this stupid Spectralthrowmuling.
Hey if you find an amulet even the switch can use Spectralthrow.....


And I won't race anymore after Mings Heart because the shedule is utter garbage.
Turbo, FamineBM, MultiShot+Turbo etc. those are modes I like but there are next to no modes like that or 90min at best.

If the shedule would promote harder races or better CT races with deleveling-->Show me somebody exploiting that in CT I would delevel him to level 1. Then there wouldn't be any reason to exploit it.

But what are the next races?
Burst randomness
Signature(way too many sigs)
1 Hour EL Fraturing(Why not add Lethal Turbo and Multishot? I certainly "enjoy" getting killed in the second zone by elem weakness+coldsnap, suiciders or charging+puncture hell)
"Hey look Fractured alone didn't have got enough players showing our act 3 mobs lets make EL"
BLAMT-->Hey here is a DD totem have fun dying
Signature
DC(also way too many of them)
2 Hour Immolation Party(is ok but outside of Vaal and followed bosses this race is trivial after level 11)
DC again
Sig followed by Sig
EL followed by Sig
DC

Hell not a single one of those races is interesting!

The next rather interesting race for me would be 2 Hr Turbo Rogue Solo (S06C164) but as long Xandro ruins this race by spawning in early areas where you can't survive 2-3 hits this is pointless.

Neon or Quarl whoever made the shedule failed horribly to create an interesting shedule.


And as long there are serveral Maphackusers like "Insert shamed player here" and 1 player exploiters I don't even feel bad about getting 4 more unrightful points.


Since there are several rightful points I didn't get. Such as reporting the incorrect freezing after the race has ended after S001E01-->Yeah there are even players who die 6 mins after the race ended because the degen aura kills them....

Or points because 1 players exploiting because I am certain the intense fights would kill several players.

"

Publicly silent probably indicates trying to sort it out hopefully. We'll know soon enough, along with the whole zoomhack and potential botting (to farm andvarius/etc) that might be going on.

I would rather see a clean 7th season with a new reward system and a filled shedule.

Hell why should I try a trapper,Bow, caster character just to be destroyed by every ST muler?

And botting? Really hard to detect a bot who needs authentication.
Just guard created connections with a modified TCP view code and if a connection to certain IP is detected-->AutoIP Ban.

Sure they can easily create a hook to counter that in a thread but each minor client update can sneak in a new check meaning either the creators give up on making money writing the bot, which won't happen or they just give up on PoE.

"

Publicly silent probably indicates trying to sort it out hopefully. We'll know soon enough, along with the whole zoomhack and potential botting (to farm andvarius/etc) that might be going on.

Are you kidding? There was even a maphacker streaming and he got pmed by a dev asking him not to maphack.
Another one also got caught and still didn't get banned.

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That one guy who never fails to attend a race and if my memory serves me well, has always gotten exactly 15 14 13 AND 12 for any 60-100 race?

That's pretty much impossible in a 1h race not being a party one or it's pretty much the best PoE player out there.
Partyraces are another case because you can simply create TPs and grind areas which is more efficient than skipping almost all mobs.

Even if I got enough luck to beat merv twice in 20 min I would have got 10 minutes left to create a 12 and 13 character and even then the best I could create would be one level 9.

"

I did note that there were 12 of the top 75 players doing this multicharacter exploit about a week ago, I don't know if the statistic has changed since then (its been about a week).

Did it twice on purpose so far both times in a sig I died after 15min.
1 time just to test another time I was just pissed because I got stunlocked.
Even the hardest Jump'n Run games gave you a chance to get away after receiving a heavy hit. But in PoE it seems like that all monster rolls are based on a time counter, so if one monster attacks and crits all monsters attacking at the same time will also crit.
There is no other explanation why for example Leaping goats will result in a Triple Shockstack for 2 seconds, and you barely survive with 1-20 hp(IF you survive)

I think I received some unrightful points in EL and one of the first DCs last season.Usually I die within the first 4 areas which have not tier, Avatar or Tempest or in the inner Halls.
The other areas are just too easy to get killed in them(outside of desyncing and the Infernoexile burns you to crisp)
EL is just random crap. If you get past the level 12 area without bigger problems and got some medium potions the race is fine but if nothing drops and you got the worst mobs possible there is pretty much no chance of winning.
Either you reroll on the spot or you try to force your way through in slow motion speed.

"

I did not include anyone that has done it in Descent Champions as those can happen by mistake, same with EL

Where is the mistake? Because literally everybody got unrightful points?

Maphack use by mistake when the internet is incosistent and not streaming?
Top 6/Top 12 party uses 1 player exploit on all bosses.I didn't include anyone who is on my FL.

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Lyralei wrote:

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Mr_Cee wrote:

You are asked to 'not use it', not forbidden.

#9 is exploiting it. Support has stated its illegal. Developers have told me its illegal.

Your move.

"

Do you KNOW why its worded this way? Its exactly done this way so that people who accidentally do it don't get lumped into the same basket as people like you who treat it as a free pass to flout the rules.

warning:long ^^
The official wording is not about 'illegalism', but just 'undesired'. And its hard to believe that the 'gap' with the restriction of 'same level' really prevents from accidents - it just raises the bar for people that manage/try to earn for MORE than 2 chars (as one/some did even in CB) Its still possible for them (as self-stated), and its a very little 'thing' for "upper-average casuals" (with just 2 RP 'rankings')

I know that it was working different before(and I think to remember that there was a change to the 'only highest char counts' system somewhere in CB just for this "ab"use by some). On the other hand, the 'standard rules for races' are so very old dated, should we really expect no a single change since mid of CB?! It not even caters that it was not possible to be multi-rewarded for some time.

First I thought, it was impossible in the same way I knew, then I thought it would just be the case for the events that counts dead chars (Descent/DC/EL) - but then I noticed a discussion and made some trials.

That it dont counts chars at the same level (giving you less for 'tier 2' with 2 chars than with lower level on the 2nd (which I feel as strange crappy thing) shows that the mechanic is 'under control' - it would NOT be a huge thing to adjust the rewarding to be 100% ouf of any question (multi-rp wise)

They know its possible, they know its used, they know how to change it - BUT they only ask to not to do it, there's no forbiddance... their move.

More in general: where are the "rules" how we have to play? Do farmin Hillock in normal counts as abuse? (there's even an achievement to find a unique on the strand...) How long can one farm Merveil or Fellshrine or Docks until get flagged as 'abuser'? How different is an "own" pace in races??? Do I abuse with stopping after reaching reward tier 2 in many races cause I cant invest more time on the given slot? Or cause I dont want to be stressed for more than 2 hours, and do 180' just partially?

Again: its an explicit implemented mechanic that it works this way, and its just one (more) option to get the most out of the situation.

The main issue is, that the lower reward tiers are set somewhat low to catch more casual players into races; and for the same reason there are reward items that are really rare/expensive/powerful put on stages that MANY players can reach with some effort. Now, they cant raise the rewards for the top spots even more, resulting in a RP limit around 15+ points (beside the #1 rank with ~20+) As an average racer now you can somewhat comfortably (avoiding risk/full-loss) reach 5 points (and probably #20 ranking with tactical class selection in lower populated events), or you can aim for 3+4 with dual-rush. A very good rusher may collect ~15 points with the same technique (if nothing goes wrong) - but he also may grab ~10+ points from a #10 ranking. Each in their own 'neighbourhood' make some/a bit more out of their possibilities, so what?

Again in general: you are ALLOWED to use multiple chars (gem swap etc), ALLOWED to use 2 instances (on the same pc, and unlimited 'instances' on multiple pc's at home), ALLOWED to use as many accounts as you like - this does not exclude the races...

For racing and rewarding: we already have the issue with time zones, its not possible to please all (and they do their really best, I assume) and we have to deal with it... lets say I calculate with 7 points from an average race, so I have to aim for 20 events to reach the Andvarius range - now look at the schedule: I can not expect more than 1 race per weekday, some (few) dont have one in my timeslot at all; there are weekends without ANY suitable race time at all, there are event types in my slot where I cant expect ANY reward (ancestral mod as example; I hate THIS fucking crazy totems), and occasoinally I'll even 'miss' a possible race (or even a complete weekend) for other things I like or have to do... If I, as initially, estimate 4...5 RP per race, I had to fit into ~30 races, and even the events I did this season summed up to ~35hrs plain racing, without framing/preparation times...

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Lyralei wrote:

"

unsane wrote:

That seems unfathomable. Any ideas how that's possible? Just poestats being buggy about death stats?

That one guy who never fails to attend a race and if my memory serves me well, has always gotten exactly 15 14 13 AND 12 for any 60-100 race?

No, the guy appears to be legit on the surface. Nothing as obvious as 12-13-14-15 stuff. He just... never dies. I thought i played safe, but he's on a different level entirely.

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TheuberClips wrote:

I also noted that I have 100% confirmation that some people are botting for rewards.

One of the racers has only missed 5 races, one of them being the One Week Nemesis which he didn't even CREATE a character in. Hell, he doesn't even have Dominus Normal killed achievement, only the Scion unlocked.

How do bots farm for Andvarius? 135 points is not exactly a given. Can you pm me an account name of such a suspected bot, so i can see what its behavior looks like?

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Hilbert wrote:

"

It pleases me greatly to see Hilbert has started abusing this. Hip hip hooray!

I died 15 mins in because of dumb stunlockmechanics so instead of getting 6 points I decided to get 10. I died in Anger current race but because I got bored of normal mode races I don't reroll.

Haha are you for real (rhetorical). No one will fall for that, seeing your recent 14/11/10 (S06S135) and 16/11/10 (S06S129). Probably a good time to hide your profile.

"

How do bots farm for Andvarius? 135 points is not exactly a given. Can you pm me an account name of such a suspected bot, so i can see what its behavior looks like?

There are over 135 events with low 1 point tiers, some even got low 3 point tiers. So the pots will just farm 3-7 points each race.

"

Haha are you for real (rhetorical). No one will fall for that, seeing your recent 14/11/10 (S06S135) and 16/11/10 (S06S129). Probably a good time to hide your profile.

Why should I?

I talk openly about using it twice and if I die early on I will continue to abuse it.
I am no liar like certain player "NEON TOLD ME CROSS TRADING in 1 week is legal"


Should I fear a ban even if confirmed RMTers and cheaters receive a warning at best?
Selective banning? Reason: "A fat dirty unemployed ginger with psychological problems, who believes he is Jesus hates you"

Chris should know that my methods are brutal and if I consider it unrightful I will take steps to ruin the reputation of the game via reports on selective banning. Selective manipulations with devs posting contraticions and on top of that I would invest some time to turn PoE in a second D2 in a bad manner.

Then I would drive those elitilist antagonizing unemployed players away by threating to reveal them. Since most of time live in Canada/US it's easy to get find out who is the owner of the IP by a copyright claim. Enjoy sueing letterbox companies for private shipping purposes only silly Americans.

And to find out the IP/VPN? Just join their mumble and the rest is up to internet justice.

Do you see me wanting bans for players abusing 1 player exploit or Cast on Death tagging since it didn't get reported for quiet some time, same with the explosive arrow overflow?

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Hilbert wrote:

Do you see me wanting bans for players abusing 1 player exploit

This is not against the rules. Though i'm not sure why i continue to respond to you, as you clearly don't understand what is allowed and what is not allowed.

GGG is not you. You are not GGG. What you think is wrong, doesn't mean GGG thinks is wrong.