Barrage

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silverbackjack wrote:

Despite all the comments in this thread I really like the skill barrage.

If your run it with GMP + COCS and any projectile spell it is incredible.

Barrage calculates it's crits per cast. If the first projectile crits so do the others so with GMP you crit 8 times resulting in firing 8 sets of 5 of the spell you've linked it to (40 fireballs in my case). It fills the entire screen with fireballs when you proc COCS multiple times and absolutely devastates even without taking a lot of spell damage.

Stacking crit chance and attack speed is the way forward with a build like this.

Nobody is saying it's bad with CoC, it's just the only damn way to use the skill, which is the problem.

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silverbackjack wrote:

Despite all the comments in this thread I really like the skill barrage.

If your run it with GMP + COCS and any projectile spell it is incredible.

Barrage calculates it's crits per cast. If the first projectile crits so do the others so with GMP you crit 8 times resulting in firing 8 sets of 5 of the spell you've linked it to (40 fireballs in my case). It fills the entire screen with fireballs when you proc COCS multiple times and absolutely devastates even without taking a lot of spell damage.

Stacking crit chance and attack speed is the way forward with a build like this.

The issue is the 2/3 attack speed; that 8 projectiles works out at 8*(2/3) = 16/3 = 5.34 projectiles per unit time. Any projectile skill would do at least 5 projectiles per unit time with GMP (so very slightly less), but usually with much higher base damage and other effects (ST's pierce and return, SA's other projectiles, Frenzy's super attack speed, etc). As you can see, ST, SA, or Frenzy would put out way more CoCS's in multi-target situations.

Barrage does work well for single-target with Quill Rain (where ST can't use bows so no Quill Rain and SA doesn't work as well against a single-target). However, Frenzy does single-target fine as well (it does work well against single-target and it can use Quill Rain). In fact, Frenzy can be better because it will also give frenzy charges for your AoE CoCS skill to use after the single-target fight has ended.

Basically, Barrage is replaceable by Frenzy for any build that Barrage is used for against single-target, while Frenzy is far better at multi-target and is also very useful for other builds as well (Discharge, Flicker, Conduit, etc). The only real niche Barrage has is CoCS with a wand, which is inferior to using a bow (Quill Rain) or a dagger for CoCS.

Actually, there are a few ways that Barrage is better than Frenzy.

The big one is mana cost. Barrage is drastically cheaper to use than Frenzy. LV1-10 Barrage is 8 mana for 4 attacks. LV1 Frenzy is 60 mana for 4 attacks.

Barrage essentially has a more speed modifier whereas Frenzy has an additional speed modifier so Barrage will scale better with additional speed from other sources.

LMP & GMP increase the number of hits you can get on a single enemy with Barrage. Other physical attacks can't shotgun like that.

Frenzy takes time to get really good (need additional frenzy charge passives plus need to level up the skill itself) whereas Barrage already has most of its functionality at LV1.

Admittedly, most of these benefits are outweighed by the reduced effectiveness, but still...

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werezompire wrote:

Actually, there are a few ways that Barrage is better than Frenzy.

The big one is mana cost. Barrage is drastically cheaper to use than Frenzy. LV1-10 Barrage is 8 mana for 4 attacks. LV1 Frenzy is 60 mana for 4 attacks.

Barrage essentially has a more speed modifier whereas Frenzy has an additional speed modifier so Barrage will scale better with additional speed from other sources.

LMP & GMP increase the number of hits you can get on a single enemy with Barrage. Other physical attacks can't shotgun like that.

Frenzy takes time to get really good (need additional frenzy charge passives plus need to level up the skill itself) whereas Barrage already has most of its functionality at LV1.

Admittedly, most of these benefits are outweighed by the reduced effectiveness, but still...

Except the speed modifier, most of this is indeed true. However, shotgunning requires being right next to an enemy, something most bow users like to avoid - especially considering the power of Ice Spear with a single-target CoCS setup. Further, the mana issue can be solved readily enough, especially considering single-target mobs that need a specifically switched skill to deal with are rare; mana pots are fine for dealing with this.

Back to the speed modifier - it is a less speed modifier, not more. Regardless of how much speed you would have, you will have 33% of that speed knocked off. While it is true that Frenzy's additional speed increases will be less effective the more speed increases you already have, they are still additional speed increases compared to Barrage's loss of speed.

As I said, Frenzy CAN be better, not that it IS better. The proviso is that you take advantage of the frenzy charges and can deal with the mana issues for the duration of the single-target fights that need it. Barrage can do single-target CoCS fine, that is the one area that it is actually a top-notch skill - but Frenzy CAN replace it.

Preferably, they should just remove the 33% less attack speed from Barrage - it is unnecessary. Then it would be competitive for multi-target CoCS too, as well as actually increasing it's dps past auto-attack dps for any other use.

What I meant is that the unmodified Barrage makes you deal 4 weak attacks 33% slower than 1 normal attack. So essentially, you're getting a +166% more Attack Speed modifier (4 hits / 1.5 time = 2.66 - 100% for innate attack speed).

EDIT: Has anyone brought up Barrage + Arctic Armour as an answer to reflect mobs? Barrage breaks your damage into smaller hits & Arctic Armour absorbs a set amount from each hit.

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werezompire wrote:

What I meant is that the unmodified Barrage makes you deal 4 weak attacks 33% slower than 1 normal attack. So essentially, you're getting a +166% more Attack Speed modifier (4 hits / 1.5 time = 2.66 - 100% for innate attack speed).

EDIT: Has anyone brought up Barrage + Arctic Armour as an answer to reflect mobs? Barrage breaks your damage into smaller hits & Arctic Armour absorbs a set amount from each hit.

And the dreaded lightning thorns issue kicks in :(

Hi,

Barrage + LMP (or/and GMP) + Life Gain On hit + Pierce (100% with qualtiy or bow passive).
Should be perfect skill for crowds with massive life returning (especially with Thief's Torment)?

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SuperBrainy wrote:

Hi,

Barrage + LMP (or/and GMP) + Life Gain On hit + Pierce (100% with qualtiy or bow passive).
Should be perfect skill for crowds with massive life returning (especially with Thief's Torment)?

infractem. don't care about leech because lgoh. arrows always pierce.

barrage - lmp/gmp - lgoh - cocs - (ice spear?) - whatever here

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Juicebox360 wrote:

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SuperBrainy wrote:

Hi,

Barrage + LMP (or/and GMP) + Life Gain On hit + Pierce (100% with qualtiy or bow passive).
Should be perfect skill for crowds with massive life returning (especially with Thief's Torment)?

infractem. don't care about leech because lgoh. arrows always pierce.

barrage - lmp/gmp - lgoh - cocs - (ice spear?) - whatever here

i would stack atack speed + elemental auras(+ passives) + crit + wespon elemental damage

maybe quil rain + thiefs torment + pierce + projectile weakness

I've been using Barrage as my ST on my ele wander instead of elemental hit lately:

(I'll replace life leech with a crit multi gem when I get around to buying a q20 crit multi).

It's.... decent for elemental damage just because of how well fast attack speeds and ele damage (especially lightning) synergize. I can imagine it would be terrible on a phys wander though. I do think it needs a minor buff, but it's not really that bad if you play to its strengths.