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Hello Mark,
Can you check my math about ARC spell because now i found linking ARC with chain support gem like DMG lose. What is lil bit strange especialy when its like only support gem for that spell what is changing mechanic, while for every other spell its gain.
So we have there 3 spells:
1 single target shot (read STS) with 500 dmg = 500 dmg sum
1 Lighting strike with 500 dmg per projectil = 1500 dmg sum
1 ARC with 500 dmg per hit = 1500 dmg sum
Now we apply chain support gem (50% less damage):
1 STS going from 500 to 250+250+250 = 750 dmg = 150% DMG done
1 LS projectils going from 500/projectil to ( 250+250+250)*3 = 2250 = 150%
1 ARC going from 500/per hit to 250+250+250+250+250 = 1250 = 80%
If we wanna normalize ARC with other spells it would need chain for every hit what ARC doing what is 250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250 = 2250
So is my math incorrect, or this spell is basicaly unfairly nerfed vs any other spell there.
PS:Sry for engrish not native speaker :)
200% Mana Cost Multiplier
Chain +2 times
50% less damage
it is a DPS loss over longer fights but it is a increase on short fights if there is 5 mobs
but you forgot to take into account that the gem level up damage (so it can be low as just 20% reduced damage on lvl 57) than it get improvment and not really that bad of a choice
the problem is the 200% mana cost , less damage I think where just a bandage to how powerfull arc and shock where before
also think it is a DPS loss compare to other support gem (element prol, light pen and critical + or critical amout depend on build)
Last edited by Freakymudcrab on Feb 1, 2013, 5:17:14 AM
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Posted byFreakymudcrabon Feb 1, 2013, 5:11:42 AM
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"on other hand when you level it up the gem it get 30% increased damage so take away to 20% "
Not nearly.
'Increased' and 'Decreased' are additive. 'More' and 'Less' are multiplicative.
With +100% Lightning damage and 50% Less damage from Chain, you will deal:
100 * (1+(100/100)) * 0.5 = 100 damage.
Add in +20% Inc Damage from Chain, and we end up with:
100 * (1+(100/100)+(20/100)) * 0.5 = 110 damage.
Not a particularly noticable increase, and it's not hard to get more +%Increased damage than that, which will make the relative difference even smaller.
Last edited by Vipermagi on Feb 1, 2013, 5:19:24 AM
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Posted byVipermagion Feb 1, 2013, 5:18:18 AMValued Poster
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Hello Mark,
Can you check my math about ARC spell because now i found linking ARC with chain support gem like DMG lose. What is lil bit strange especialy when its like only support gem for that spell what is changing mechanic, while for every other spell its gain.
So we have there 3 spells:
1 single target shot (read STS) with 500 dmg = 500 dmg sum
1 Lighting strike with 500 dmg per projectil = 1500 dmg sum
1 ARC with 500 dmg per hit = 1500 dmg sum
Now we apply chain support gem (50% less damage):
1 STS going from 500 to 250+250+250 = 750 dmg = 150% DMG done
1 LS projectils going from 500/projectil to ( 250+250+250)*3 = 2250 = 150%
1 ARC going from 500/per hit to 250+250+250+250+250 = 1250 = 80%
If we wanna normalize ARC with other spells it would need chain for every hit what ARC doing what is 250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250 = 2250
So is my math incorrect, or this spell is basicaly unfairly nerfed vs any other spell there.
PS:Sry for engrish not native speaker :)
200% Mana Cost Multiplier
Chain +2 times
50% less damage
it is a DPS loss over longer fights but it is a increase on short fights if there is 5 mobs
but you forgot to take into account that the gem level up damage (so it can be low as just 20% reduced damage on lvl 57) than it get improvment and not really that bad of a choice
the problem is the 200% mana cost , less damage I think where just a bandage to how powerfull arc and shock where before
also think it is a DPS loss compare to other support gem (element prol, light pen and critical + or critical amout depend on build)
Taking lvlup dmg into account is irelevant because its work for all spells, so its just another constant but in end you lose more with chaining arc vs chaining projectil.
I dont wanna comapre here dps loss or gain different support gems, i compare here how chain differently work for different spells.
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Posted byMaduson Feb 1, 2013, 5:26:10 AM
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Hello Mark,
Can you check my math about ARC spell because now i found linking ARC with chain support gem like DMG lose. What is lil bit strange especialy when its like only support gem for that spell what is changing mechanic, while for every other spell its gain.
So we have there 3 spells:
1 single target shot (read STS) with 500 dmg = 500 dmg sum
1 Lighting strike with 500 dmg per projectil = 1500 dmg sum
1 ARC with 500 dmg per hit = 1500 dmg sum
Now we apply chain support gem (50% less damage):
1 STS going from 500 to 250+250+250 = 750 dmg = 150% DMG done
1 LS projectils going from 500/projectil to ( 250+250+250)*3 = 2250 = 150%
1 ARC going from 500/per hit to 250+250+250+250+250 = 1250 = 80%
If we wanna normalize ARC with other spells it would need chain for every hit what ARC doing what is 250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250+250 = 2250
So is my math incorrect, or this spell is basicaly unfairly nerfed vs any other spell there.
PS:Sry for engrish not native speaker :)
200% Mana Cost Multiplier
Chain +2 times
50% less damage
it is a DPS loss over longer fights but it is a increase on short fights if there is 5 mobs
but you forgot to take into account that the gem level up damage (so it can be low as just 20% reduced damage on lvl 57) than it get improvment and not really that bad of a choice
the problem is the 200% mana cost , less damage I think where just a bandage to how powerfull arc and shock where before
also think it is a DPS loss compare to other support gem (element prol, light pen and critical + or critical amout depend on build)
Taking lvlup dmg into account is irelevant because its work for all spells, so its just another constant but in end you lose more with chaining arc vs chaining projectil.
I dont wanna comapre here dps loss or gain different support gems, i compare here how chain differently work for different spells.
well it is relevant with if you want to talk Damage , it loss it efficent on 5 target unleveled and 4 on when leveled....
you compare LS and arc that make it very relevant as there is more constants (LS have 3 and can be supported by lesser prosjektal that make it even more efficent even with the reduced damage because again, level up the gem and it got removed the penalty)
so you can add LS to 5, and with greater ony have 20% reduction after level up it is even more nasty, as arc is not a procjetal spell and can't benefit from this that make it meh in comparison of lightning strike when it strike
but if it just jumpwise....it is about right, the damage is wrong because the spells don't deal 500 and is why your math is right but in reality is wrong as the damage they deal is quite diffrent number (and arc got lightning is variable damage from very low to very high) while LS is constant
Last edited by Freakymudcrab on Feb 1, 2013, 7:11:43 AM
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Posted byFreakymudcrabon Feb 1, 2013, 6:31:43 AM
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I dont understand what are you trying to tell, but i see there 17 pages about weak ARC spell, in damage, in aoe effectivity, how spark is better in everything (it is) and so... Maybe if chain gem worked in same way like for other spells it would be different.
Edit: if the Final dmg is problem like 2 targets got chained to dead by 9 jumps then there is easy fix like for spark chain (or pierce i dont know) = cannot chain same target.
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Last edited by Madus on Feb 1, 2013, 6:56:14 AM
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Posted byMaduson Feb 1, 2013, 6:46:09 AM
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Is the ARC proc too many times on higher range of its damage, or it is just me?
Perm. Retired from this unforgiving land of the Exiles.
Self-impost EXILED.
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Posted bystarsgon Feb 1, 2013, 7:14:11 AM
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well to make it simple as possible....you need to look at the whole kit, not just chain and arc alone when you compare
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Posted byFreakymudcrabon Feb 1, 2013, 7:14:34 AM
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So i looked on whole kit of ARC spell but still got only that:
-> anything can be better for aoe dmg like arc because of fork/pierce/LMP/GMP usable on those spells
-> chain specially usable on all projectiles vs arc is better for projectils
-> lpen/crit and other things have same value for arc and projectile based spells
still got weaker kit like other kits
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Last edited by Madus on Feb 1, 2013, 8:19:07 AM
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Posted byMaduson Feb 1, 2013, 8:18:11 AM
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Arc is fine. You merely need to link a Quality version of it with Quality Lightning Pen, Quality Crit Chance, Quality Elemental Proliferation, Quality Faster Cast, and Quality Mana Leech or Reduced Mana.
Yes I understand this 6L is unlikely any time soon, but I've got the a third of it covered and Arc is doing tons of damage, if it's not doing tons, it's proccing shocks at a 40% chance per cast without Conductivity, and stuff eventually dies no matter what.
It only does 650 DPS, but it still works just fine. I only wish my 2000 DPS Shock Nova was more useful.
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Posted byelbicnivnimaion Feb 1, 2013, 3:53:48 PM
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So i looked on whole kit of ARC spell but still got only that:
-> anything can be better for aoe dmg like arc because of fork/pierce/LMP/GMP usable on those spells
-> chain specially usable on all projectiles vs arc is better for projectils
-> lpen/crit and other things have same value for arc and projectile based spells
still got weaker kit like other kits
The fact that you can't link Projectile supports to Arc makes it an ideal place to link Crit and Crit damage, and Life/Mana Leech.
If you want to use Spark, you're already forced to use LMP or GMP, and Faster Projectiles just to get its damage up to normal, and that's not even including Light Pen or Proliferation.
Arc is much more versatile in regards to what gems you can link to it.
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Posted byelbicnivnimaion Feb 1, 2013, 3:57:03 PM
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