Life buffs [and spectral throw] make early game easier

The aura buff is irrelevant on low levels this tiny boost doesn't doesn't offer that much more damage being able to counter attack speed.

You have 43% less mana compared to the old hatred aura.
Anger and Wrath are hit even harder because they don't take flat amounts anymore.

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dudiobugtron wrote:

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SlixSC wrote:

The reason I dismissed your argument offhand is simple... it's a pointless argument. I, quite frankly, don't give a shit that there is some outlying possibility for it to be "good" if you have absolutely amazing RNG, because that will never be a criteria by which we judge viable race builds.

You said that bows were too reliant on luck, and also now couldn't run auras.

I said I agreed that bows were too reliant on luck, but said that bow users can run auras, and in fact will benefit more from them.

You said that they can't run auras because they're too reliant on luck.

I said that this makes no sense.

You are now trying to convince me that my argument made no sense because bows are too reliant on luck.

No, bow users can't run auras. I tested it today on a Ranger, it's simply not possible to sustain the mana. Go ahead, make a video of you playing a ranger with no twink gear while running an aura in act 1 and 2 (wrath or hatred).

I have first-hand experience here, I tried it, it doesn't work, you might not realize this but I raced as bow ranger throughout most of season 4 (before I switched to Templar), so I know what the fuck I'm talking about, munchkin.

edit: And for christ's sake the luck factor of rolling bows has nothing to do with rangers being unable to run auras and I never implied that it does either. These are two seperate issues, both are problems, both make bow ranger a bad choice in races.

The only exception is if you roll an absolutely amazing long bow (slow attack speed) that can carry you through all of act 2. The chances of that happening however, are astronomical, that's why it's a pointless argument. edit2: Actually I take it back, I tested it with composite which is same atk speed as long bow and you still can't sustain an aura.



That composite bow is above average for a race, because at least it has two somewhat ok rolls, but I still couldn't sustain an aura.

But even that already presupposes that you A: find a rare composite and B: get useful mods on it and again the chances of that happening are astronomical and... I reiterate you still wouldn't be able to sustain an aura.

Unless of course, you think constantly tping out to refill your pots just so you can kill a pack of blues is a viable race strategy.

edit3: LOL, ok so I am doing another test run right now. My character is lvl 10, 84 mana, with hatred/wrath 33 mana, RoA costs 12 mana per cast. So you can cast RoA exactly TWICE (irrespective of what type of bow you use) before you run out of mana, how is ANYONE convinced that is sustainable? I must be getting trolled.

This is very, very, very basic math. Please people, just test it yourself before starting another bullshit argument with me about this.

edit4: Did more testing, at lvl 12 and above you actually have just enough mana with wrath to cast RoA a staggering 3 times before running out of mana (if you link it to any gem - like added cold you can only cast it twice, so that's a no-go). Hatred seems barely worth it, as it is only percentage-based and at that level you are effectively scaling nothing with nothing (for 60% of your mana). I am convinced Auras are not sustainable at this point, however if someone finds a way and can actually demonstrate that with evidence (a video or calculations) I'll happily change my opinion.

Just please know that I'm actually testing stuff like this for hours every day, so I'm not just saying these things based on nothing.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, my ob bow ranger race build almost always had 50% or more of its mana reserved by wrath, and it was still functional. The need to hit a mana flask as soon as i started roaing, and the normal attacks that would randomly get spliced in due to mana bottoming out, ended when i upgraded to composite at 15 (or longbow earlier if lucky).

The problem here is mostly roas high mana cost, not the increased aura reserves.

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KoTao wrote:

As mentioned earlier in the thread, my ob bow ranger race build almost always had 50% or more of its mana reserved by wrath, and it was still functional. The need to hit a mana flask as soon as i started roaing, and the normal attacks that would randomly get spliced in due to mana bottoming out, ended when i upgraded to composite at 15 (or longbow earlier if lucky).

The problem here is mostly roas high mana cost, not the increased aura reserves.

Yeah, that's true, playing Bow ranger was always problematic. However I don't see that as an argument against what I said. Just because it was always problematic doesn't mean that it should still be so.

In the practise runs I did today, I had completely different experiences every run. With good gear I was able to sustain the mana once I got a composite bow, with mediocre gear I would often times run out of mana and have normal attacks randomly spliced in even with a composite bow (when trying to kill blues, due to not being able to refill flasks, if you need more than 6 hits for the blue pack you are screwed and have to use auto-attack or tp and refill pots) and with bad gear it was simply unplayable... bad gear as in no rare bow, no useful mod on any blue bow... which happens quite frequently actually.

So there seem to be 3 different "levels" of RoA if you will.

Good gear - can sustain mana for auras and effectively two-shot things (low probability)
mediocre gear - sometimes runs out of mana with aura, but not frequently (most likely)
bad gear - unplayable (higher probability than good gear)

The problem here is very obvious, not only does a player with good gear have the inherent advantage of doing more damage (who would have thought?), the fact that their damage is high enough to effectively two or one-shot packs allows them to run an aura on top of that, which someone with bad gear simply cannot sustain.

"

That composite bow is above average for a race, because at least it has two somewhat ok rolls, but I still couldn't sustain an aura.

The bow is a quiet bad for a rare.
You need the ED roll.

"

edit3: LOL, ok so I am doing another test run right now. My character is lvl 10, 84 mana, with hatred/wrath 33 mana, RoA costs 12 mana per cast. So you can cast RoA exactly TWICE (irrespective of what type of bow you use) before you run out of mana, how is ANYONE convinced that is sustainable? I must be getting trolled.

2x Paua Rings each ring = 1 attack.
You also are forced to take Primal Spirit.
But you can be certain that shifting the Problem to even weaker glass cannon will shift the problem to damage again.

"

As mentioned earlier in the thread, my ob bow ranger race build almost always had 50% or more of its mana reserved by wrath, and it was still functional. The need to hit a mana flask as soon as i started roaing, and the normal attacks that would randomly get spliced in due to mana bottoming out, ended when i upgraded to composite at 15 (or longbow earlier if lucky).

The problem here is mostly roas high mana cost, not the increased aura reserves.

While potting may be true such as the shadow needs different manapot shifting to win Hillock now(still crit based)
You ignore the problem that you also need correct flasks and you need a higher Manabase.
If you could use leveled wrath on a low level ranger in OB then you had INT->Mana.

Hatred always could be used.
Anger/Wrath needed correct level up management.

"

bad gear - unplayable (higher probability than good gear)

Actually the most likely case.
In most races I kill merv with a white weapon.

The worst case scenario is as common as good gear.
I had only like 5 worst case races(small flasks no tps white gear) and around 6 good case races.


My prediction for the Ranger is rather that the used skill will switch back to LA / PA+FT

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SlixSC wrote:

edit: And for christ's sake the luck factor of rolling bows has nothing to do with rangers being unable to run auras and I never implied that it does either. These are two seperate issues, both are problems, both make bow ranger a bad choice in races.

My apologies, you are right; I misunderstood your posts. I thought you were just ignoring my points, but you were addressing them.

I'm still not sure I agree that auras are so bad for rangers now as you make out, but at least I understand your point now.

"

The bow is a quiet bad for a rare.
You need the ED roll.

Well yeah, for a rare it's quite bad, but that wasn't my point, like you said near the end of your post, often times you don't even find a good blue bow, so a rare bow is probably always gonna be above average, almost irrespective of the stat rolls (unless they are absolutely horrible).



?

"

Actually the most likely case.
In most races I kill merv with a white weapon.

The worst case scenario is as common as good gear.
I had only like 5 worst case races(small flasks no tps white gear) and around 6 good case races.

Sorry I genuinely don't understand what you are trying to say here. Are you implying that white weapon at merveil equals good RNG for you?

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dudiobugtron wrote:

"

SlixSC wrote:

edit: And for christ's sake the luck factor of rolling bows has nothing to do with rangers being unable to run auras and I never implied that it does either. These are two seperate issues, both are problems, both make bow ranger a bad choice in races.

My apologies, you are right; I misunderstood your posts. I thought you were just ignoring my points, but you were addressing them.

I'm still not sure I agree that auras are so bad for rangers now as you make out, but at least I understand your point now.

That's cool man. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me because it actually makes for a better discussion. I only get frustrated when people disagree with me just because they think I said something that I never actually said, which happens an awful lot on this forum actually now that I think about it.

Leveled wrath = lapis amulet + primal spirit, and much later the +30 int node beside thick skin. It almost always came to around half my total mana (unless i got lucky with +mana rolls), though it was never a problem even on base mana once the switch away from shortbows was made. I just dont see the slight (total) mana reserve increase having a major effect on the build.

Im assuming all the builds being mentioned here are taking primal spirit, btw. Trying to maintain shortbow roa + aura without it is miserable and theres no guarantee a lapis will be available by lvl10 anyway.

"

KoTao wrote:

Leveled wrath = lapis amulet + primal spirit, and much later the +30 int node beside thick skin. It almost always came to around half my total mana (unless i got lucky with +mana rolls), though it was never a problem even on base mana once the switch away from shortbows was made. I just dont see the slight (total) mana reserve increase having a major effect on the build.

Im assuming all the builds being mentioned here are taking primal spirit, btw. Trying to maintain shortbow roa + aura without it is miserable and theres no guarantee a lapis will be available by lvl10 anyway.

It's definitely worth testing, you might actually be right ranger might have to use a lapis + Primal Spirit as soon as possible. I'm just not sure if you should get Primal Spirit at lvl 13 (earliest possible), or go for aspect of the eagle first (4% MS, 20% Phys Damage, Accuracy and base life) which would delay Primal Spirit another 3 levels, but give you movement speed and other good stats.


Pre-patch I always went

Ballistic Mastery - Aspect of Eagle - Heart of Oak - Finesse - Primal Spirit.

So maybe now go:

Ballistic Mastery - Heart of Oak - Finesse - Primal Spirit - Aspect of Eagle

What do you think?

You can grab Primal Spirit at lvl 10 so you have enough Int to run a lvl 1 Wrath which also gives you more time to get a Lapis by lvl 13:
http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgIBAdFiWpXIoSKiQK_rxKLfmPT4

Alternatively, you can grab it by level 13:
http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgIBAdFiWpXIoSKiQKfUr-vEotwV35j0-P7I

I usually don't bother getting Heart of Oak. You have to go glass cannon to make the ranger work. Going glass cannon also helps with mana issues.

I did a test run a few days ago and i agree with Slix.
Right when you get the aura at lvl 10 its amazing because 2 hits is enough to kill anything even with shitty gear.

When you start lvling RoA (which you kinda want) and use a support gem you start having huge mana issues in act 2 which slows you down considerably unless you have amazing gear.

Makes racing as Ranger even more frustrating than it already was...

Edit: I picked Added Cold because its higher dps than Faster Proj but the multiplier is also higher. I wonder if FProj is a better option: 14 vs 18 mana per attack.