my plan was to get all Frenzy Charge notes to increase the damage of both Frenzy and EK, but, does the cast speed increase the damage output per triggered EK ?
So what's the issue? The issue is that without godly gear, you can easily reach 4.5k+ hp, decent armor and 40k AoE dps having range of Ethereal Knives. Compare this to the fire trap builds which are known for their AoE dmg; it is clear that cast on crit is too strong currently. This is truly insaaane aoe dmg and easily achievable in the 4-month temporary leagues.
I can of course present all math in case GGG requests it.
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So what's the problem?
*Cast on crit bypasses the mana cost of the spells. This is specially noticable with Ethereal Knives who is known for having massive mana cost.
*Cast on crit can stack multiple Ethereal Knives in same 6-link, which gives good scaling. Normally each link yields about 30-40% more dmg in practice. So if we ignore mana costs and assume 40% more per link, this would lead to that a 6 link gives in total 437.8% more dmg.
Three EKS linked is equivalent to a scaling of 200% more dmg.
This may not sound so bad, but unlike power charge on crit, "cast on crit" can trigger multiple spells per skill use. So with a Spectral Throw linked to Lesser Multiple Projectiles, you can easily trigger each linked spell 6 times per attack skill use.
All these factors together cause massive aoe damage to be achievable with affordable gear. Far far more than the majority of other builds can achieve with same effort. (Yes I am aware of that EK is not "AoE" according to the terminology in this game, but I use general gaming terminology when I refer to "AoE" and not PoE one.)
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Suggestions for solutions:
*Only allow "Cast on Crit" to trigger once per skill use, just like in the "Power charge on crit case".
*Make so that if multiple spells of same kind are linked to the same "Cast on Crit", then only one of the spells will be cast. This would encourage people to link different spells rather than just a lot of "Ethereal Knives".
*Let the mana cost of the linked spells affect the total cost for using the attack skill.
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It's currently extremely difficult to use, as stated multiple times before.
You have to invest in way too many things so the build isn't great until end-game - and then your thinly spread skill tree shows when you die extremely quickly. The link you posted had him come extremely close to dying to Dominus, while there are countless other builds which can do great damage as well but can take attacks much better.
"Extremely difficult"? Please, the only issue is reflect.
The build linked has 210% increased life at lv85. At that point with proper but affordeble gear (under 1 exa per piece), you easily have 4500+ hp which is enough for endgame mapping with the range of that build.
So what's the issue? The issue is that without godly gear, you can easily reach 4.5k+ hp, decent armor and 40k AoE dps having range of Ethereal Knives. Compare this to the fire trap builds which are known for their AoE dmg; it is clear that cast on crit is too strong currently. This is truly insaaane aoe dmg and easily achievable in the 4-month temporary leagues.
I can of course present all math in case GGG requests it.
----------------
So what's the problem?
*Cast on crit bypasses the mana cost of the spells. This is specially noticable with Ethereal Knives who is known for having massive mana cost.
*Cast on crit can stack multiple Ethereal Knives in same 6-link, which gives good scaling. Normally each link yields about 30-40% more dmg in practice. So if we ignore mana costs and assume 40% more per link, this would lead to that a 6 link gives in total 437.8% more dmg.
Three EKS linked is equivalent to a scaling of 200% more dmg.
This may not sound so bad, but unlike power charge on crit, "cast on crit" can trigger multiple spells per skill use. So with a Spectral Throw linked to Lesser Multiple Projectiles, you can easily trigger each linked spell 6 times per attack skill use.
All these factors together cause massive aoe damage to be achievable with affordable gear. Far far more than the majority of other builds can achieve with same effort. (Yes I am aware of that EK is not "AoE" according to the terminology in this game, but I use general gaming terminology when I refer to "AoE" and not PoE one.)
----------------------
Suggestions for solutions:
*Only allow "Cast on Crit" to trigger once per skill use, just like in the "Power charge on crit case".
*Make so that if multiple spells of same kind are linked to the same "Cast on Crit", then only one of the spells will be cast. This would encourage people to link different spells rather than just a lot of "Ethereal Knives".
*Let the mana cost of the linked spells affect the total cost for using the attack skill.
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Ok so to offer some counter arguments:
-It absolutly sux vs bosses the dps is just nonono - you gonna be beartraping here.
-despite what you say getting 150% max life increase is more or less max you can get and i don't know what 4,5k max life non godly gear you talk about
-Most of power in the vids comes from linking 3 EK as Proc that are argumented then by hatered. If multicast nature was to be removed (this will happen and we all agree on it i think) his dps will drop to 1/3 (1/2 in practice since then he will use added fire)
-What that guy posted in videos was possible only due to CwDT that was nerfed since then and he said is using ST now but no vids with that yet ... eh ? (ST and EK doesn't synergise )
See the link, that person has 210% max life at lv85. That's enough for 4500+ life at that point without going broke (less than 1 exa per equip piece).
What he does in the video is completely irrelevant because that is just a case result from one particular player with certain gear. His gear leaves a hell lot to be desired.
The only analysis that should be relevant is the mathematical one.
Yes, removing multicast (as in more than 1 damage spell triggered by "cast on crit") would be one good way to balance it, like you said.
Since many requested and seem to think 4500+ life is hard to achieve with the build linked there at lv85:
Base life: 50
Life from leveling to 85: 84*8 = 672
Life from his skill tree: 100
Life from Oak: 40
Increased life from his skill tree: 210%
Life from having lowest roll at 2nd highest life tier possible for said gear:
Helmet: 80
Chest: 90
Gloves: 70
Shoes: 70
Belt: 80
Ring: 60
Ring: 60
Necklace: 60
Cool story, he doesnt have that, btw have you never saw people posting pictures where they have over 200k dps? You guys seem new or never bothered to check people with uber high dps... There were few guys oneshotting every mob in lvl 71maps with doublestrike melee splash, and noone complained..
Cool story, he doesnt have that, btw have you never saw people posting pictures where they have over 200k dps? You guys seem new or never bothered to check people with uber high dps... There were few guys oneshotting every mob in lvl 71maps with doublestrike melee splash, and noone complained..
Depends on what gear the person is using. Of course, GGG shouldn't balance around what permanent leagues can do with mirrored gear. The balance should be around the 4-month leagues.
I imagine you need AA to negate reflect damage.
Quilrain is king with this gem.
To maximize dmg use 1 support skill Like frenzy+ power charge on crit+curse on attack+critical weakness+gmp
Build up your charges and begin pwnage.
Splitarrow+cast on crit+chain+EK*3 (tabula rasa) 6l
Splitarrow+cast on crit+chain+firestorm*2 (Infernal mantle) 5l
Frienzy+cast on crit+pierce+lmp+fireball (Infernal mantle) 5l
At lvl 75ish (recomended to make transition from leveling build) You can get 800% GLOBAL crit, some spell power or projectile damage and 400% crit multiplier with 130% hp as shadow,
and plenty of mana to keep AA on.
Becomes a little bit more tricky with spark.
Franzy+cast on crit+gmp+life leech+spark. (The covenant) 5l
While split arrow relies on monsters hit while frenzy relies on attack speed making it 8attacks/s.
Now bigger question is how do you handle frame rate when you produce 100 sparks/s, Also in party this is a troll skill. When you unleash its like "what frame rate? i dont see any frames?!"
Last edited by kavinux on Nov 27, 2013, 6:44:07 AM
using cast on crit with fireball and lmp. I am over 60% crit on both gem and freezing pulse but I haven't seen one fireball come out. I ran docks 3 times as a test.
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