Race Idea

When did I ever equate skill with time spent? What I did say is that skill also comes from time spent, the best racers all put a lot of time into this game.

Also I think this idea would actually appeal more to the average player. Many people find regular racing to be very tedious and difficult with little reward. Even your so called example of a level 35 character would get some rewards out of this system.

I am a fan of choices and this race type sounds like fun to me, despite not having some uber high level char with great gear. If you don't like the idea fine, but trying to suppress other peoples choices just because its not your bag of tea is asinine.

edit:

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Splift wrote:

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SlixSC wrote:

GGG is already catering to the community of morons by making PvP competitive (even though it's broken and takes no skill) at least leave racing as it is and let the best players win there and not the person with the most time on their hands who grind endgame 15 hours a day.

Don't even need to comment on this point aside from saying it shows just the type of person this opinion is coming from, someone who gets angry at people who play the game different than them.

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SlixSC wrote:

Wrong. I get angry when people conflate two different things. The normal game and races. Races are competitive events, the point of races is to evaluate who is better at leveling. If you advocate for an uneven playing field, by introducing high level characters, it is almost impossible to determine who is actually better at leveling, because some characters will be multitudes stronger than others, removing skill requirement and adding an inherent advantage to player's who simply have more time to play the game than others.

Acually you clearly were angry at the pvp community and the fact that it is getting a ranking system, if you are going to retract your comment at least do it in an honest way and not simply trying to ignore and rewrite what you already typed.

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Splift wrote:

When did I ever equate skill with time spent? What I did say is that skill also comes from time spent, the best racers all put a lot of time into this game.

Also I think this idea would actually appeal more to the average player. Many people find regular racing to be very tedious and difficult with little reward. Even your so called example of a level 35 character would get some rewards out of this system.

I am a fan of choices and this race type sounds like fun to me, despite not having some uber high level char with great gear. If you don't like the idea fine, but trying to suppress other peoples choices just because its not your bag of tea is asinine.

No it's not. Fair competition trumps player choice. For example, if I brought a shotgun to a football match (which is my choice) I don't think very many people would be ok with that choice or even want to play with me.

We can play the reductio ad absurdum game if you want to, gonna be alot of fun. My position taken to the extreme simply results in every player starting off at lvl 1 with no gear, your position (promiting player choice over fair competition) has no such limitation. Why not allow players to ride bikes in game that give them a 500% movement speed increase for races? Why not just have an "auto-win" button, which when pressed automatically wins the player the race?

Your position is absurd, because you cannot possibly draw a line between acceptable player choices and unacceptable player choices, by virtue of advocating for player choice over fair competition. You have nothing to contrast it with, if competitions, as you said in your last post, don't have to be fair, you might aswell turn it into a huge fuckfest, sort of like the ultimate sandbox where everyone gets to use cheats and hax and all other sorts of bullshit things you can imagine (auto win button), because in the end, according to you, the only reasonable position is to increase the amount of decisions players can make, even if it comes at the cost of fair competition.

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Splift wrote:

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SlixSC wrote:

Stuff..

You're example sucks. As of right now its very easy for even a casual to get level 75 and after this update lvl 85 will probably be in reach for the average player. Also someone who has never played past level 35 will probably suck at any type of race.

With the risk of sounding arrogant, I would like to point out that you have not accomplished the task of reaching lvl 75 yourself, even though it is so easy even for a casual (This is according to poestatistics. I hereby assume that you only have 1 account.). Yes, you did in Anarchy but races are hardcore. And you have not really raced yourself (one 3h party).

You are of course, perfectly entitled to having and voicing your own opinion! But tread carefully when talking about something that you (as it looks) have very little experience with (i.e. racing in hardcore leagues).

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Splift wrote:

Do you actually think that the people who win regular races are casual or don't put much time in?

For the absolute best, yes. For those below, who win now and then when the top players are not participating, not necessarily. I had a long period myself during which I only raced. I had no time for laying permanent leagues. I ended up placing top 5 in class every time. My highest permanent character was lvl 51. I would assume that there are other players doing the same, and they may very well be better than me and have lower level permanent characters.

I like the idea of choices, and a race for main characters from permanent leagues are somewhat intriguing. However, I fear that making a race league of that kind that would actually make any sense might be difficult.

The only way I can think of right now would be to run and Endless Ledge for permanent characters where

- The race is hardcore
- You play a copy of your permanent character, i.e., drops, XP gains, deaths, etc. would not change anything.
- No ledge map level cap at 60, perhaps 100. (it should be so hard in the end, that the top players on the permanent ladders would feel challenged.
- The race should be a fun race with absolutely no rewards. No points, no random draws and no demis.
- Fixed Seed.

Yes I have not raced much and neither has most of the community. The fact that this board is the least active on the whole poe forum shows that. I am simply an average player giving my input of what I think would be a fun option. Imo this makes my opinion more valuable because it shows how GGG can get more of the community involved in races.

Also the first reply to this thread is from someone who is a very accomplished racer himself, so take that for what its worth.

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Hassefar60 wrote:

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Splift wrote:

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SlixSC wrote:

Stuff..

You're example sucks. As of right now its very easy for even a casual to get level 75 and after this update lvl 85 will probably be in reach for the average player. Also someone who has never played past level 35 will probably suck at any type of race.

With the risk of sounding arrogant, I would like to point out that you have not accomplished the task of reaching lvl 75 yourself, even though it is so easy even for a casual (This is according to poestatistics. I hereby assume that you only have 1 account.). Yes, you did in Anarchy but races are hardcore. And you have not really raced yourself (one 3h party).

Re-examine your point. I never said anything about hardcore, I was responding to his example of someone who has never played past level 35.

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SlixSC wrote:

A bunch of bs that implies that this idea would destroy competition and undermine the very foundation of racing

Please, for someone who claims that racing is for people with skill who don't spend 15 hours a day in the game you really come off sounding like an elitist and video game purist. Honestly try reading what you just wrote.

boof is way more accomplished than nugi and he disagreed with you. So nobody cares and it doesn't change the fact that you are wrong, logically speaking. Your argument was reduced to absurdity, just let it go.

Also, calling me an elitist or purist (which I may or may not be, don't know) doesn't actually address my counter-argument. If this is the best you can do you are simply a waste of time.

Actually look at boofs first reply to the thread, he his agreeing with me. Personally I don't care if its for points or not (I dont see why not but whatever). I just didn't agree that races that give rewards absolutely had to be started from a blank state.

My point was your counter argument is absolutely ridiculous. This is a game its about being fun not about maintaining some pure and absolute definition of competition. Imo its your argument that is absurd and you should let it go.

Edit: actually I just realized everyone in this thread but you is at least partially open to the idea.

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Splift wrote:

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Hassefar60 wrote:

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Splift wrote:

You're example sucks. As of right now its very easy for even a casual to get level 75 and after this update lvl 85 will probably be in reach for the average player. Also someone who has never played past level 35 will probably suck at any type of race.

With the risk of sounding arrogant, I would like to point out that you have not accomplished the task of reaching lvl 75 yourself, even though it is so easy even for a casual (This is according to poestatistics. I hereby assume that you only have 1 account.). Yes, you did in Anarchy but races are hardcore. And you have not really raced yourself (one 3h party).

Re-examine your point. I never said anything about hardcore, I was responding to his example of someone who has never played past level 35.

Since this is a thread about racing, I assumed that we were talking about hardcore, since 99% of all races are hardcore. So that is, in my opinion, the norm. At this point, I would expect any post in the race feedback forum to explicitly use the word "softcore" or equivalent, if that was part of the suggestion.

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Splift wrote:

Actually look at boofs first reply to the thread, he his agreeing with me. Personally I don't care if its for points or not (I dont see why not but whatever). I just didn't agree that races that give rewards absolutely had to be started from a blank state.

My point was your counter argument is absolutely ridiculous. This is a game its about being fun not about maintaining some pure and absolute definition of competition. Imo its your argument that is absurd and you should let it go.

Edit: actually I just realized everyone in this thread but you is at least partially open to the idea.

No, in my first reply I said I have no problem with the idea as long as it's not for points or rewards. The disagreement only happened once you asked for rewards.

I'm very open to the idea, as long as it is only a fun event. Competitive races however should be fair and balanced. And I'm sorry, but a race in which some players get to use a lvl 95 character and some players have to play 70 characters or lower is by definition not fair.

It's really that simple, if you want this as a fun event, I'm all for it, but it has no place in competitive racing.

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Splift wrote:

Actually look at boofs first reply to the thread, he his agreeing with me.

Boof suggested racing with a "a preleveled and outfitted character". That is not the same as racing with your own character from a permanent league, which is what you (Splift) are talking about (I assume), and what the OP is about.

It was a response to his point about someone who has never played past level 35 getting shafted by this idea and my counter argument that someone who has never played past 35 would suck at any race.


Also

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SlixSC wrote:

So nobody cares and it doesn't change the fact that you are wrong, logically speaking. If this is the best you can do you are simply a waste of time.

Ironically its your logic that is flawed if you think somebody can be "logically" wrong in a discussion about opinions. I think you are the one more in the wrong by creating your own definitions for things then using those definitions as your own winning argument.