Crying about Nerfs but Blind to huge amount of power creep!

Well as expected a lot of overpowered stuff got nerfed but surprising somethings were untouched (CoC, twisters??). I personally was hoping for more buffs to underperforming skills but hopefully that will come in the mini balance leagues before 1.0.

However when people see nerf after nerf etc. especially to very popular builds, they seem to become blind the massive amount of potential power creep coming in 0.5.

We have a bunch of new skills and supports that any class can potentially use to combine with any existing skill.

We have heaps of new crafting potential. (There is crazy power coming in crafted jewels)

We have heaps of new runes coming into the game some of which look bonkers.

we have new base types especially with jewelry and the ability hone them like never before. (There is always big power available in jewelry)

and even way more probably with the ability upgrade uniques etc.

The danger I see in this for GGG is that a lot of this potential power will only really become available once we sink our teeth into this amazing new endgame but how much of the player base will actually get there?

The 1%er's will mostly always gravitate to the most broken builds/skills and because what seems like a vast majority of skills just underperform especially during the campaign, the average player is way more inclined to copy paste overpowered stuff and therefore perpetuate the cycle of strong builds getting nerfed which again seems to blind us.

I think there is justification in people having a big problem with balance at the mo, I hope GGG listen and act on it.

See you on the 29th :-)

That is kind of the point of the nerf hate I have been reading. They didn't nerf the stuff (at least hard enough) that needed it but instead nerfed stuff that basically is not even played. They didn't buff the other things not being played.

Crafting is still not going to be really touched by the vast majority of players in the extent of getting GG gear at least so it really didn't help the average player.

New skills are going to be a have to try it first kind of thing. They could be amazing, just ok, or why is this even in the game it does nothing tiers. Time will tell.

New runes? Yea, they added a lot of bandaids to the game IMO. The really good ones will again be super rare or expensive. If they are not then the rune becomes the gear and not the gear it self which is very bad IMO.

New base types could be interesting for filling gaps in builds better but all in all, its the same stuff with different numbers at the top.

The unique upgrade thing is going to be very interesting as long as it is done right. Super low level uniuies should get massive buffs which MIGHT make them usable. Time will tell if it is enough or not.

Good call on the "The danger I see in this for GGG is that a lot of this potential power will only really become available once we sink our teeth into this amazing new endgame but how much of the player base will actually get there?"

That is always the problem. How many of these systems are actually going to be used (frequently, not just try once and move on) by the vast majority of the player base. I am all for options though so over all it will be better IMO.

The average player is more inclined to play a proven strong build because they see it and say that looks fun, I want to play that. Combine that with the fact they are not 12 hour a day andy's and you get the recipe for build copying.

Balance is absolute crap and these patch notes did basically nothing but limit build options IMO (Existing builds, not talking about new skills/ascendancies/items). Twister left unchecked and not further promoted, CoC got nothing, ES was tapped down but still going to be top dog, Blood Mage is IMO going to be even more picked now with how bad they gutted leech. Were there even mana cost adjustments or are 90% of builds going to be using blood magic again since there is no way to sustain the ridiculous mana costs? Now that I am thinking about it, it will probably be a blood magic and hp regen meta with the normal MoM and ES. So basically the same stuff yet again.

IDK, time will tell but just my thoughts about it all.

Yeah man I totally agree that a lot of the nerfs to under played stuff seems completely unnecessary.

I think it is a double edge sword in some instances though. I'm sure the dev/balance team know that certain new things coming into the game are going to make things very strong and therefore justifying a base level nerf. We as average players (well me in any case) don't know these things off the bat so we immediately have the reaction of WTF why nerf this such and such.

But in saying this there is those cases where the nerf seems to just gut skills and I have always thought why do devs etc. do this to themselves even if it is needed. I understand in Meta changes etc. etc. but when they inevitably do this I have also always thought they need to bring way more underperforming skills up to compensate for the expected backlash. This seems too again be the case with nerf hammer dropping in 0.5.

Thanks for the Reply.

I don't like where this game is going.
There's already sooooo much bloat in socketables and this patch is cranking this up even more. I mean, how many socketables you want?
You want Tabularasa to be BiS for every build in the game eventually?

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brentdoom#4597 wrote:

I'm sure the dev/balance team know that certain new things coming into the game are going to make things very strong and therefore justifying a base level nerf.

I'm going to stop you right there chief lol.....

Temple... Enough said lol

Sad reality, I have very little faith in the balance and testing teams.

I worry less about the power creep. The most important mission of this update is to entertain players. It is not to build a labyrinth of progression that will last the next 30 years. It has to last six months at best, more likely two to three for people to get their fill and still be happy enough to return. The game can claim success when people are happy playing whatever they choose.

I find it absolutely ok, if the player can outscale the content and reach a point at which you can say "I won". If the result is a happy player who returns for the next season start, GGG can claim to have done the right thing.

Because consider the alternative to power creep. An eternal struggle of constantly having the feeling of being to weak, constantly struggling, constantly needing to perform at peak concentration. If that was your job, you would probably quit it and look for another.

I was mostly talking about skills and items with regards to the dev team having some kind of idea of what affects them.

When it comes to a league mechanic that whole another monster all together and is impossible for them to fully test all the outcomes, loopholes and/or exploits.

It is very much a shame when they don't act quick enough or if at all on extremely broken league exploits which intern mess up the economy.

Generally speaking This is kinda the gaming world we live in now though, Gone are the days we just play games for fun, we have to find exploits or broken mechanic's so we can get rich fast and reach god-mode as fast as possible and then wonder why we lose interest games faster than before. This extremely difficult challenge for game developers to control especially with massive scope of poe1 and 2, I think GGG manage this better than most.

I am a pretty chill dad gamer that plays for fun but always eventually feel the pull towards what the boys/girls are doing to print currency haha.

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4thVariety#6623 wrote:

I worry less about the power creep. The most important mission of this update is to entertain players. It is not to build a labyrinth of progression that will last the next 30 years. It has to last six months at best, more likely two to three for people to get their fill and still be happy enough to return. The game can claim success when people are happy playing whatever they choose.

I find it absolutely ok, if the player can outscale the content and reach a point at which you can say "I won". If the result is a happy player who returns for the next season start, GGG can claim to have done the right thing.

Because consider the alternative to power creep. An eternal struggle of constantly having the feeling of being to weak, constantly struggling, constantly needing to perform at peak concentration. If that was your job, you would probably quit it and look for another.

I am not worried about power creep either mostly because I am not the greatest gamer especially when it comes to dodging bosses attack or wonderful memory games etc. and need I all the unbroken/ethical help I can get haha.

I was mainly just raising a point that the negative response to nerfs always comes thick and fast with a lot of people not even thinking about all the new power we have coming good or not and whining that their easy god-mode has be taken away.

I think the underlying point in all this is - what is actually "fun" for people when it comes to gaming?

Does God-mode = Fun (certainly seems the case with the younger generation)

Does experimenting and trying new things = Fun (If so POE2 is trying hard to fill this void but balance needs a lot of work)

Does Crafting = Fun (0.5 is your wet dream lol)

I guess for a lot of us it is a little of everything, I combat not getting too worked up by not having any expectations. Sure I have wants and hopes as much as the next player but I play what I get and it's up to the content to keep me engaged.

It's always possible to buff character power without nerfs

0.4 was underpowered and extremely boring

So 0.5 with nerfs and 'power creep' the power will be 'almost the same'

When we need 2x or 3x stronger characters just so it feels playable