Trying to make everyone happy ends up making nobody happy

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Burn4#0434 wrote:

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yosheee89#3525 wrote:

exactly. They already watered down end game bosses since launch because people were having a hard time. I guess they need the easier gameplay for the ones struggling and harder content ontop of that for the ones who want continued challenge, so hopefully 0.5 brings that

You have it completely backwards. You are confusing a stat check with an actual mechanical challenge.

You look at content that requires better gear as challenging and content that doesn't as for those that struggle. But a stat check is not a challenge. Challenge is when a fight requires actual mechanical skill and execution. The reality is that all content in this game becomes easy once you get the gear. It's entirely about the grind, not the gameplay, and adding higher tiers doesn't change that.

Both of you are correct.
Issue is the infinite player sustain. Make fights where you can't leech/recoup and you're on timer that's based on your ability to avoid the damage as well as pump the damage out. That would enable the proper balancing possibility and reduction of one-shots during the encounters.

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Burn4#0434 wrote:

You have it completely backwards. You are confusing a stat check with an actual mechanical challenge.

You look at content that requires better gear as challenging and content that doesn't as for those that struggle. But a stat check is not a challenge. Challenge is when a fight requires actual mechanical skill and execution. The reality is that all content in this game becomes easy once you get the gear. It's entirely about the grind, not the gameplay, and adding higher tiers doesn't change that.

Oh really? So a new player with hypothetical perfect gear could kill Arbiter of Ash without knowing the mechanics by simple DPS?
Higher tiers & more HP = more boss mechanics the average player has to engage with before the boss is dead.
Also infinite retrys at low tier and zero xp loss on boss death has created an almost zero risk scenario

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AxiomOfAnarchy#7408 wrote:

I can get through the entire POE1 campaign in the time it takes to get through a single godawful POE2 act. Even playing A1-A4 3 times over back in the day was quicker than getting through any of the POE2 acts. It's also not copy pasted; while there's a lot of reuse of assets and layouts in revisited areas (which is how they were able to add 6 acts to POE1 in less time than it took to go from POE2 0.4 to POE2 0.5), there are also significant differences between A1-A5 and A6-10.

That's exactly the point. You are conditioned to plow thru the campaign as fast as possible while at this point there is no endgame to be had in POE 2. The pinnacles are a joke, I faceroll them all with low 90 unoptimized chars. And then you are done and complain that the endgame is bad. The POE 2 campaign is the best part of the game at the moment whether you want to admit it or not.

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yosheee89#3525 wrote:

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Burn4#0434 wrote:

You have it completely backwards. You are confusing a stat check with an actual mechanical challenge.

You look at content that requires better gear as challenging and content that doesn't as for those that struggle. But a stat check is not a challenge. Challenge is when a fight requires actual mechanical skill and execution. The reality is that all content in this game becomes easy once you get the gear. It's entirely about the grind, not the gameplay, and adding higher tiers doesn't change that.

Oh really? So a new player with hypothetical perfect gear could kill Arbiter of Ash without knowing the mechanics by simple DPS?
Higher tiers & more HP = more boss mechanics the average player has to engage with before the boss is dead.
Also infinite retrys at low tier and zero xp loss on boss death has created an almost zero risk scenario

Have you ever reached the highest tiers of bosses? Once you have the gear in 0.4, you can kill everything really fast-like in 10 seconds. And they aren't going to change that power curve anytime soon.

Attempting bosses that you might fail makes zero sense because you are just burning currency you could have sold instead. Nobody touches these fights until they know they are strong enough to win. You are intentionally out-gearing the challenge to protect your investment. Failing isn't rewarded here - it’s just a massive waste of time and economy.

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Burn4#0434 wrote:

Have you ever reached the highest tiers of bosses? Once you have the gear in 0.4, you can kill everything really fast-like in 10 seconds. And they aren't going to change that power curve anytime soon.

Attempting bosses that you might fail makes zero sense because you are just burning currency you could have sold instead. Nobody touches these fights until they know they are strong enough to win. You are intentionally out-gearing the challenge to protect your investment. Failing isn't rewarded here - it’s just a massive waste of time and economy.

I feel like those people never seen the game outside of campaign.

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Burn4#0434 wrote:

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yosheee89#3525 wrote:

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Burn4#0434 wrote:

You have it completely backwards. You are confusing a stat check with an actual mechanical challenge.

You look at content that requires better gear as challenging and content that doesn't as for those that struggle. But a stat check is not a challenge. Challenge is when a fight requires actual mechanical skill and execution. The reality is that all content in this game becomes easy once you get the gear. It's entirely about the grind, not the gameplay, and adding higher tiers doesn't change that.

Oh really? So a new player with hypothetical perfect gear could kill Arbiter of Ash without knowing the mechanics by simple DPS?
Higher tiers & more HP = more boss mechanics the average player has to engage with before the boss is dead.
Also infinite retrys at low tier and zero xp loss on boss death has created an almost zero risk scenario

Have you ever reached the highest tiers of bosses? Once you have the gear in 0.4, you can kill everything really fast-like in 10 seconds. And they aren't going to change that power curve anytime soon.

Attempting bosses that you might fail makes zero sense because you are just burning currency you could have sold instead. Nobody touches these fights until they know they are strong enough to win. You are intentionally out-gearing the challenge to protect your investment. Failing isn't rewarded here - it’s just a massive waste of time and economy.

Maybe my wording wasn't perfect. Most players are going to have to engage with Arbiters mechanics is what I was getting at. You can't tell me with a straight face that his mechanics are a stat check bro

edit: What do you think they should do instead? I might have missed you saying it earlier. Something like instant boss invulnerability with arena mechanics before you can DPS? I just can't think of a way to make the boss fight more challenging outside of scaling the HP and making the player engage with the arena one shots

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default_mp3#9394 wrote:

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Burn4#0434 wrote:

Have you ever reached the highest tiers of bosses? Once you have the gear in 0.4, you can kill everything really fast-like in 10 seconds. And they aren't going to change that power curve anytime soon.

Attempting bosses that you might fail makes zero sense because you are just burning currency you could have sold instead. Nobody touches these fights until they know they are strong enough to win. You are intentionally out-gearing the challenge to protect your investment. Failing isn't rewarded here - it’s just a massive waste of time and economy.

I feel like those people never seen the game outside of campaign.

why would I reference an end game pinnacle boss that I have never engaged with. Since you're being smart, did you ever kill Arbiter of Ash without ever engaging with his mechanics? Was it a simple stat check for you or did you die a few times?

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default_mp3#9394 wrote:

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Lobo#4398 wrote:

Being god is boring. That's why I always stop playing the game when I reach that stage.

And what you want? Feeling being miserable even with 3 million divine worth of gear? That is not fun either.

I want a meaningful, methodical, and engaging combat experience from beginning to end. Sadly, people often misinterpret this and start bashing Dark Souls games. Or they complain about combo systems that don't fit the current difficulty, and so on...

That is not what I mean.

1. I want gameplay clarity that allows you to recognize your enemies, learn and observe their actions and behavior, and act accordingly to improve your chances of successfully defeating them.

2. I want more game interactions that lead to interesting random encounters and events you're excited to talk about with your friends. Not some stat spikes that kill you out of nowhere. Actions! For example, using features of some enemies to defeat others, etc.

3. I want to experience a variety of power fantasies that are believable and feel good. Not some glitchy nonsense like bows shooting hundreds of arrows in 360°. That's not how shooting a bow feels. And why does everything have to explode on death just so you feel like you're playing the game correctly?

4. I want a game where playing multiplayer with friends is actually fun, with potential to build cross-character synergies. Not unbearable visual clutter where no one knows what's happening on screen.

Well, that's me. It doesn't feel like the majority of the POE community shares my sentiment. I don't know, man... effortless harvesting that feeds the monopoly game, or whatever dopamine streak stripped of any real depth, is no longer for me. My only hope is that the team will continue improving on those aspects after the official release.

BTW, 0.2 was an experiment that I fear completely killed any other attempts at slowing the game down. It was bad, and no one liked the experience, including me. But the biggest issue was caused by terrible drop rates, or RNG in general, and by huge item power disparities. Sadly, not many people realized that.

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Lobo#4398 wrote:

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Argonlo#6237 wrote:

"When youre starting fresh, combos/combat etc.. should matter but eventually with good gear youre still supposed to become a god".

Being god is boring. That's why I always stop playing the game when I reach that stage.

Preach. I do exactly the same. That’s the point where I feel I completed my goal in making my build work like clockwork and everything mostly melts.