Why does the game force you to make a build that 1 shots the screen?

"

karsey#2995 wrote:

There are tons of people who get 97+ and even 100 with non screen clearing builds. Go look at the ssf leagues on ninja where they can't just trade for super rare giga-OP gear, it's basically full of them.

We call those "sweats" in the gaming community. They exist for every game; they are the exception to the rule.

If you live and breathe a game 24/7 you are an anomaly. Most people will never achieve what they achieve therefore they are irrelevant to the plight of the normies.

These entire threads usually have so many incoherent assumptions under the main topic that discussing it intelligently means first getting a bunch of facts straight.

So lets consider the pre-suppositions of the OP post and then I'll address your comment in that context:

1. "The true endgame literally requires a build that one-shots the screen"
- ignoring that "true" endgame can mean whatever anyone reading it wants it to mean;
- Demonstrably false

2. "If you're not 1 shotting the screen your char can die in 1 second to any number of things regardless of defense"
- Also Demonstrably false.

3. "It just takes the right combo of map mods or monster mods and any build is toast"
- Somewhat true, but it's too general and postured in context as though there's no counterplay or in game tools which allow one to handle the existence of map mods or rare monsters on any character at all.

4. "...the endgame is so overtuned."
- Too generalized, and completely subjective

5. "[Playing a character that kills things before they can attack you] is literally the ONLY way to play endgame..."
- Also demonstrably false, hence my suggestion to go look at some builds which demonstrate it, by examining the ssf ninja list.
- About your idea that everyone 97+ in a ssf league is a sweaty 24/7 no lifer - it's just not true, but even if it was true, those builds could still easily exist within a trade league and be executed by "casuals" where they still wouldn't be deleting the entire screen instantly as the ONLY way to play endgame.

6. "...but they nerf the builds that do it constantly."
- A lot of the mechanisms that enable currently OP builds have existed for longer than 0.4. When mechanisms become nerfed they are sometimes still very strong. For example, you can still play lightning spear and be just fine. They are brought in-line (or at least, there is an attempt to bring them in line) with other skills, they are usually not deleted.

So when we boil it all down and look at what's being said and how, this "plight of the normies", as you've called it, can be re-phrased as:

"

"I was finally successful in the endgame by copying a certified-nerf-worthy, over-powered build, and I am frustrated about the possibility of having my power-fantasy taken away from me by future nerfs. I don't understand why that would/could/should happen when this is the only way I understand the game can be beaten at the highest level."

There's nothing inherently wrong with being frustrated or confused in this scenario. It's actually pretty understandable why someone might be frustrated and confused when they have trouble figuring out a solution to something, and then when they find success with someone else's comparatively strong solution, they also don't understand why that particular solution might be taken away.

The response from other people in the thread, like you and I, usually comes from how this sort of situation is being handled.

Do they blame their frustration on anything and anyone other than themselves? Do they take any personal responsibility for anything? Have they made any actual effort to find alternative solutions? When people attempt to offer solutions or advice in the thread, or show them examples that are directly contrary to their position in an attempt to highlight a contrary viewpoint or even alternative solutions, are they dismissed with any of the following sentiments:
- Game is too hard/bad
- Balance changes are dumb/nonsensical
- Monsters are too powerful
- Internet is laggy
- Mechanics are too complex
- The demands on 'normal' or 'new' players are too high
- I have tried all other possible solutions already
- There are no other possible solutions

Usually when those sort of sentiments are present the people expressing them aren't here to have a discussion or to get an answer to their question, or at least not an answer that doesn't also validate their frustration. This post is mostly just a validation vent.

So it's probably best just to tell the OP not to worry so much, that everything will be okay, and that there will likely be another OP build for them to copy next league too.

It's a tough game, and it's supposed to be. That's why it feels so good to become powerful within it and it's why lots of people put in the effort to learn how to do so.

There are legions of people here who love solving problems and if you have anything in the game that confuses you, you'll get lots of help for it if you ask as long as you're more curious than you are ready to blame the devs, the game, other players, or mercury being in retrograde, or whatever. Otherwise we get threads like this lol.

why not a standardized test?

lets say GGG gets hundreds of volunteers and their own staff to play
a VERY specific temp league.

every variation of every build will be represented.
they will all be forced to use items of extremely similar quality.
where the items are identically spawnable at the same area and mlvl.
and directly in the middle. ie: if phys damage can spawn between 70 and 100
it _WILL_ be set to 85. right in the middle. same for all other mods.

then the players will run the exact same bosses, and the exact same maps.
maybe even repeat bosses a few times. map/boss/map/boss get a decent sample
size, then see which build PWNZ, and which build is Phoqued. (rendered
a baby seal)

at that point you could still argue player skill issues, but we would
get results. one build would be the best, one the worst. everything else
would be in the middle somewhere.

want better confirmation? increase sample size.
the proof is always directly inside the pudding. concentrated in its centre.

There's not a single youtube video featuring an endgame build that does not 1 shot the screen.

It's amazing that people even took time to argue against my point with their paragraphs of drivel.

The game is what it is. They can't balance so they raise the difficulty and damage to the point where the player is made to always feel insufficient like it's their fault they keep dying to (random abyss mob). That is, UNTIL YOU MAKE A BUILD THAT 1 SHOTS THE SCREEN.

Also the amount of currency it takes to make a character that is even considered remotely tanky at endgame further drives my point home about needing to 1 shot the screen.

There's not a single youtube video featuring an endgame build that does not 1 shot the screen.

It's amazing that people even took time to argue against my point with their paragraphs of drivel.

The game is what it is. They can't balance so they raise the difficulty and damage to the point where the player is made to always feel insufficient like it's their fault they keep dying to (random abyss mob). That is, UNTIL YOU MAKE A BUILD THAT 1 SHOTS THE SCREEN.

Also the amount of currency it takes to make a character that is even considered remotely tanky at endgame further drives my point home about needing to 1 shot the screen.

It is VASTLY easier and less expensive to make a build that one shots the screen than it is to make a build with 25k ES. This is why one shotting the screen is the most preferred method of defense AND offense.

I run a pure tornado build, killed Arb, ran t18 with delirium. You don't need 1 shot screen clear to play.

Several simple reasons, really. Monsters are too fast, too many attacks have unclear or no telegraphs, and enemies hit hard enough that letting packs stay alive is often just gambling with your character. In softcore leagues, that pushes players toward builds that can wipe the screen with one skill, because killing things before they act is often the safest defense.

It also applies to bosses. If bosses are dangerous, highly mobile, and punish long uptime windows, then players naturally prioritize heavy damage so the fight ends before mistakes or bad overlap kill them. In that kind of environment, “clear speed” is no longer just about efficiency. It becomes survival. It's just a bonus that in softcore, speed also = currency.

If you play Lost Ark and saw how slow/deliberate/telegraphed/staged fights are, then you could imagine the drastic changes that need to happen to POE2 for it to be a combo-based ARPG.

a shame. cause it was clear to be during the campaign that
the goal was to allow for clever maneuver and dps stacking
methods like cursing and marking and otherwise debuffing the boss
during a fight.

its clear to me that the goal of campaign was to develop mechanical skills
it would be a shame to render that study futile.

learn to float like a butterfly and sting like a bee. then what comes next?
stand and deliver like a damned englisman in a duel? throw all the training
out the window? live or die by one action?

"

AgnosiousD#2205 wrote:

then what comes next?
stand and deliver like a damned englisman in a duel?

I WISH "stand and deliver" was a possible play style for channeling skills like wyvern shapeshift or some fire spells... BUT YOU HAVE TO ROLL OR SOMEHOW DASH YOUR ASS EVERY QUARTER OF A SECOND LEST YOU GET BLOWN UP BY HOMING MISSLES THAT DETONATE FOR A MILLION CHAOS DAMAGE.

I just started playing Fate of the Vaal again after dropping it earlier in the league. Going for a wyvern druid. I CANNOT KEEP MY SANITY whilst doing vaal temple, ritual, and sometimes even abyss due to the sheer amount of monsters cramped on one screen, half of which is already usually occupied by map obstacles. You CANNOT afford to stand still lest you get NUKED by the 3 lighting cannon monsters hiding somewhere among the billion other monsters and effects. Well, maybe the 12 grenades that vaal grenadiers managed to stack on you whilst you where channeling for half a second get you first. Or the rare that has extra chaos and extra lighting damage one-shots you even sooner...

Game has absolutely HORRIBLE monster design, and if nothing changes in the next patch then I'm out. Oh, and bosses aren't that much better either, they are usually easier to face than a mana draining rare. Well maybe that's a good thing cause bosses never drop anything worthwhile anyways.

God how I wish this game was good...