POE2 disrespecting our time (Post-0.4.0)

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Japonbu#0742 wrote:

Gatekeeping the mode doesn't save it; it just empties it.

This is where we disagree. SSF doesn't need saving. I certainly don't care if anybody plays it but me. I wonder if GGG actually cares if a fraction of the 7.8% of all characters made feel that their time is not valued, despite willingly restricting themselves.

You also have to realize that this is patch 0.4 in Early Access. You can ignore a lot of content on an SSF character in PoE1 due to the abundance of mechanics. SSF progression will be made a lot more palatable in the future, I'm sure. It's wild how many threads this forum gets on a daily basis regarding a lack of content or the slow progression when the game hasn't even hit 1.0, as if both midgame and endgame aren't placeholders lol. People are actually treating 0.4 as a full game and are unhappy that their MTX purchase of $30 went towards a product that hasn't even figured out what it wants to be yet

Basically 90% of this game's design is "you must play like this and do that, because we think it's better for you and more entertaining, and you don't understand what's fun is for you, but we do, so accept that"

And then people who sink hundreds of hours a season in the game tell you it's fine and you are a noob. I doubt all this philosophy will ever change. POE2 isn't how it is marketed at all

free lock medallions

-1

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SoFaux#7759 wrote:

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Japonbu#0742 wrote:

Gatekeeping the mode doesn't save it; it just empties it.

This is where we disagree. SSF doesn't need saving. I certainly don't care if anybody plays it but me. I wonder if GGG actually cares if a fraction of the 7.8% of all characters made feel that their time is not valued, despite willingly restricting themselves.

You also have to realize that this is patch 0.4 in Early Access. You can ignore a lot of content on an SSF character in PoE1 due to the abundance of mechanics. SSF progression will be made a lot more palatable in the future, I'm sure. It's wild how many threads this forum gets on a daily basis regarding a lack of content or the slow progression when the game hasn't even hit 1.0, as if both midgame and endgame aren't placeholders lol. People are actually treating 0.4 as a full game and are unhappy that their MTX purchase of $30 went towards a product that hasn't even figured out what it wants to be yet

That "It's just Early Access / Patch 0.4" argument is exactly why we need to be loud right now.

Early Access isn't a shield to deflect criticism; it's the time to shape the game. If we stay silent and say "Oh, the progression is slow but it's just a placeholder," then guess what? That placeholder becomes the final product. We are providing feedback because we want 1.0 to be good. Silence equals acceptance of bad design.

And regarding your 7.8% statistic: You are confusing Cause and Effect.

Is the SSF player base small because nobody wants to play Solo?

Or is it small because the current drop rates make SSF miserable, forcing people into Trade against their will?

I bet a lot of that "92%" in Trade League would happily play SSF if they weren't terrified of never seeing a build-enabling unique. "Willingly restricting ourselves" means restricting Trade, not restricting Fun.
he current progression disrespects my time. Hiding behind the "Early Access" label doesn't change that reality.

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AXiD_#1761 wrote:

Basically 90% of this game's design is "you must play like this and do that, because we think it's better for you and more entertaining, and you don't understand what's fun is for you, but we do, so accept that"

And then people who sink hundreds of hours a season in the game tell you it's fine and you are a noob. I doubt all this philosophy will ever change. POE2 isn't how it is marketed at all

Cruel but true. You summed up "The Vision™" perfectly.

It feels like going to a restaurant, ordering a steak, and the chef brings you a plate of raw broccoli saying: "Trust me, you don't actually want the steak. You think you do, but this broccoli is better for your engagement metrics. Eat it and be happy."

And you are spot on about the marketing. They marketed PoE 2 as this modernized, action-focused, accessible evolution of the genre. But in reality, it feels like they doubled down on the archaic, punishing, no-lifer mechanics of 2013.

The disconnect between "What was sold" (Action RPG) and "What was delivered" (Economy/Friction Simulator) is huge. And regarding the "elite" defenders... I think it's just Stockholm Syndrome at this point. They’ve suffered for so long that they think suffering is the gameplay.

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thelatvian#2737 wrote:

free lock medallions

Or better yet: Remove the item entirely and just make it a UI button.

Why is "saving your progress" tied to a consumable item in the first place? It feels like playing an RPG where the "Save Game" button is a rare drop from a boss.

"Oh, you want to secure the room you just upgraded? Sorry, you didn't find a 'Save Orb'. Guess you lose it."

Locking a room shouldn't cost currency. It should be a strategic choice, not an economic one.

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Japonbu#0742 wrote:

"Oh, the progression is slow but it's just a placeholder," then guess what? That placeholder becomes the final product. We are providing feedback because we want 1.0 to be good. Silence equals acceptance of bad design.

This is just arguing about whose sense of fun is better. I play a lot of rogue-likes and I do not apply my goals that can be accomplished with trading to SSF. I wouldn't want to apply them; not being able to plan a build prior to league-start is the main appeal to SSF in my opinion. If obtaining a Headhunter or The Coming Calamity is inevitable within 2 weeks of playtime at 2 hours a day, then I don't see any appeal of this game mode. Rogue-likes will always be niche. With your logic, they are designed to waste your time because you may only get the combination of items you want on the 400th run, then never again. I believe you are approaching SSF in the wrong way and that the game mode is not for you.

Expressing your opinion on the direction of the game is fine and it is understandable when the developers don't communicate in detail, but I'm here to leave feedback as well and I believe there should absolutely be no guarantees in the SSF game mode. Your concerns are short-sighted and are too early. The more people complain about disparity regarding wealth generation between the no-lives and the casuals in trade league, the more accessible SSF will be simply because you will have more mechanics

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SoFaux#7759 wrote:

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Japonbu#0742 wrote:

"Oh, the progression is slow but it's just a placeholder," then guess what? That placeholder becomes the final product. We are providing feedback because we want 1.0 to be good. Silence equals acceptance of bad design.

This is just arguing about whose sense of fun is better. I play a lot of rogue-likes and I do not apply my goals that can be accomplished with trading to SSF. I wouldn't want to apply them; not being able to plan a build prior to league-start is the main appeal to SSF in my opinion. If obtaining a Headhunter or The Coming Calamity is inevitable within 2 weeks of playtime at 2 hours a day, then I don't see any appeal of this game mode. Rogue-likes will always be niche. With your logic, they are designed to waste your time because you may only get the build you want on the 400th run, then never again. I believe you are approaching SSF in the wrong way and that the game mode is not for you.

Expressing your opinion on the direction of the game is fine and it is understandable when the developers don't communicate in detail, but I'm here to leave feedback as well and I believe there should absolutely be no guarantees in the SSF game mode.

I respect your feedback, but the "Rogue-like" comparison has a massive flaw: Time Scale.

In a Rogue-like (Isaac, Hades, etc.), a "bad run" wastes 45 minutes. You die, you laugh, you go again. In PoE SSF, a "bad run" (getting bricked by RNG) wastes Weeks. You cannot compare a 1-hour gameplay loop to a 100-hour progression curve. Losing an hour is fun; losing a month is demoralizing.

Also, please don't use the "Headhunter in 2 weeks" strawman. Nobody here is asking for Tier 0 Chase Items to be handed out for free. We are asking for Build-Enabling items (common uniques that make a skill function) to be realistically targetable.

There is a huge canyon between "Guaranteed Headhunter" and "Grinding 200 hours just to find a build-enabling helmet." We just want to bridge that gap. I don't want guarantees; I want reasonable probability that respects a human lifespan.

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Japonbu#0742 wrote:

We are asking for Build-Enabling items (common uniques that make a skill function) to be realistically targetable.

There is no unique that makes a skill you unlock with a skill gem able to "function." That is delusion based upon the scaling you can easily achieve in trade league.

Multiply that 1-hour gameplay loop a hundred times and you will see no difference.