GGG arrogance is killing both games

"

Gryzzex#3752 wrote:

"

Alzucard#2422 wrote:

Same for me i spent 2000 Hours in the game and since i started playing. The high praise they get seems abnsolutely unjustified.

Bad communication. Not taking responsibility for anything. Bad handling of exploits. Bad patches. Bad Leagues. Broken promises.

This is bad. I palyed many games in 15 Years of Online gaming and ive barely witnessed such a train crash ever.

I also spent over 1,200 hours in PoE 2 and over 5,100 hours in PoE, and I spent a not insignificant amount of money supporting GGG, but now I feel exactly the same way.

I would just like to add a thought on why PoE 2 has the EA label when its business model (regular seasons, MTX and support pack sales) and monetization model are exactly the same as if it didn't have it. It just seems to me that GGG is using the fact that the game isn't finished as an artificial excuse. Over the last year, the game and three seasons have been released, and in each one, one class (weapon skills) has been released, so it will be in "EA" for another two years.

Personally, what I would expect are faster changes on a monthly basis, even resets after a not entirely successful implementation, and not a focus on pulling more money out of players, which is still EA.

"

Blade_Dancer_90#3602 wrote:

"

Johny_Snow#4778 wrote:

I've always found it hilarious how a couple of years ago PoE 1 was considered very casual-unfriendly and very hard game to get into because of the numerous intertwined systems. But now, apparently, the game is for casuals because it is fast. Funny how human perception works. Never thought that a slower game is a more big brain one

That's because it's not...

These quotes come from Souls-like fanbois that are now the self-proclaimed "elite gamers" and the typical PoE2 players... you know, the people that say "Souls games are for real gamers... they're the hardest games int he world"... no, they're not! They're tedious, clunky and eat up your time in the most meaningless way, but they're NOT hard... you just need to memorize the attack patterns and dodge the same attacks again and again to kill the boss... that's the most basic, low IQ form of gaming... your character has a very limited skill-set (as bare bones as can be... basic attacks, dodge, parry, block... that's it!) and the pace of the game is very slow...


Souls games are actually very hard to play for people with high IQ because they get bored of doing the same thing over and over and every boss fight needing the same thing (just dodge)... high IQ people want creativity and lots of different options for their gameplay to keep it fun and engaging for them... low IQ players are happy to do the same thing over and over forever as long as they feel they're "skilled" because of it...

PoE1 is a much more high IQ game than PoE2 because it gives you way more freedom to create your own playstyle... PoE2 oversimplifies everything and fakes the being "harder" thing by taking away power from you (you hit softer and have less HP and defenses, passive tree nerfed, game giving you waaaaay less loot and putting all your power on your gear to make it even more tedious) and giving excessive HP bars to enemies to make it seem like it's "harder" to kill them when in reality it's just more tedious... going through the same attack pattern 20 times instead of 5 times because the boss has a massive HP bar doesn't make me more skilled... just makes the fight needlessly longer...

And that leads to PoE2 forcing you to play a very very specific build that is extremely streamlined, with very little to no options for creative solutions and very very few cookie-cutter meta-builds being viable if you want to truly have end-game power...

Personally I really hate following build guides... it's like someone else playing the game for me... what's the point of playing an ARPG if I'm not making the decisions for myself? PoE2 is designed for Youtubers, streamers and build guide sellers... not for people that want to be creative and make their own playstyle... it's a "commercial product" that it's designed for those that profit from it... it's not an artistic video game that it's designed for those that wanna enjoy playing it...

Anyway, that's about it...

"

JarlaxleDaerthe#2435 wrote:

Facts, PoE2 has absolutely no difficulty to it and they continue to nerf interesting builds until all that's left is the same cookie cutter clones.

"

rrogan17#2926 wrote:

Both games are very healthy though. PoE1 is over 100k on launches and the retention for PoE2 is better now than it ever has been, with the player count increasing every league. By no measure are they killing the game. If anything they are finally getting them both to a good place, as the numbers reflect the majority of both player bases being happy.

Hope something can change for you, but try not to just put stuff out there that can be easily called out as wrong with a simple look at the data. I didn't even read past your the title of your post because it was wrong to begin with.

Good luck though with the future leagues and hope they can adjust it to your liking as well!

"

scaeva_#9735 wrote:

"

JarlaxleDaerthe#2435 wrote:

Facts, PoE2 has absolutely no difficulty to it and they continue to nerf interesting builds until all that's left is the same cookie cutter clones.

You touch a very interesting point, some things really deserved to be nerfed, but nerfs alone don't fix things, it's necessary to improve skills and mechanics on underperforming builds...
.the problem here is to know what an underperforming build is, some builds hyper perform at peak, but they scale very bad, which makes them very punishing during some stages...

This is a massive issue with PoE 2 now, not only at defend, but also at offense.

And balancing endgame content based on hyper performing builds is a very bad idea.

"

rrogan17#2926 wrote:

Both games are very healthy though. PoE1 is over 100k on launches and the retention for PoE2 is better now than it ever has been, with the player count increasing every league. By no measure are they killing the game. If anything they are finally getting them both to a good place, as the numbers reflect the majority of both player bases being happy.

Hope something can change for you, but try not to just put stuff out there that can be easily called out as wrong with a simple look at the data. I didn't even read past your the title of your post because it was wrong to begin with.

Good luck though with the future leagues and hope they can adjust it to your liking as well!

"

stearnix#4567 wrote:

As a player of both Poe 1 & 2 who discovered the license with the early access in 0.1 and since then have been addicted to both games every league and with every league i feel like GGG has become more and more out of touch with the playerbase.

First of all, i'm not really going to talk much about poe 1 since i'm still bad at the game but the 2 last leagues weren't good.
Mercenaries was well received because it offered the possibility of new builds while also giving a base +25% loot bonus as you had another character with you but this league was only good because the base game was good, not because of the league mechanic.

as for keepers... somehow they thought we needed a loot nerf while also making the league mechanic only good for the campaign and complete garbage for maps. we also received a "loot buff" mid league when people complained, which barely changed anything.

i'm talking about those because it feels like it's the same pattern for Poe 2.
somehow, after all the complaints, GGG still does not understand that what makes people play their game is the loot drop and the current league was proof of that, people kept playing poe 2 despite it's numerous flaws.
and now let's talk about the flaws of Poe2

first of all the layouts
The maps are horrible, they're the worst aspect of poe 2 be it in the campaign or endgame. They're too big and their generation is just horrible, having lots and lots of small corridors and dead ends. coupled with the facts that we have no movespeed it's really frustating.

People have been complaining about it since 0.1 and we got a nerf to it as they used to be even more horrible than now somehow.

The movespeed
This is also something players have been complaining about since 0.1 and we had a little buff to it thanks to the movespeed runes and essence of increased effect on boots. But somehow GGG thought it was a good idea to nerf it in 0.4 while also, in the interview not understanding what people wanted about move speed.
"What do people want more of it ? less of it ? i don't understand" which is what Mark said during the interview.

The builds
In 0.1 we had a lot of build variety. since then they've nerfed/killed most of the interactions (hexblast my beloved) and made combos necessary.
now i have no problem using combos to boost the damage of my abilities in the campaign of even against bosses but the problem is when those combos become necessary to use a skill or do damage at all.
this is something we should solve with player progression and not GGG killing skills interactions. When i do hundreds of maps i don't want to press combos for pack of white and blue mobs my main skills should be able to kill them and, on higher budget, even rares.
Their unwillingness to give such progression is just boring as we're stuck with the same skills and no way to progress.

The defenses
Lmao
you have a high punitive game where we lose the map, loot,exp and have to rerun the map we just lost to progress the atlas.
you would expect such a punitive game to have a lot of defenses options, but somehow, they're worse than poe 1 where we have 6 portals a map.
Passive tree
it's just damage,barely at that

Endgame
This is one of the biggest problem of poe2, which is going to be adressed in 0.5 but seeing how they managed this league and last poe1 league i don't have much hope for it.
there is no loot, maps are just boring coupled with the fact that they're immense and that there is barely any mob in it. No one wants to run maps they're just pain.
coupled with the fact that you cannot choose your layout and that if you die ONCE in a map (because let's be honest, you already barely have anything dropping in your map so you have to run 3 tablets everytime to get something out of it) you do not lose only xp (which i think is normal) but you lose the loot and then you have to RERUN the empty map to progress your infinite atlas tree.
This is where it gets bad because it's a layered punishement with the no movespeed and horrible layout and map generation. There is no fun in that it just makes us lose out time for nothing.

All of those problems have been a core issue since 0.1 but somehow GGG never listened to our feedback and only did the things they felt like it seems like they barely listen to anything we say and believe their vision of the game is the only correct one and that all the playerbase is wrong about it and seeing the current hotfix about temple. it proves that they don't know what they're doing nor what kind of game they're making.
with all those decisions not only do they punish the experienced players but also the casuals by not respecting both of these player's time and fulfilling both the casual and experienced player's expectation are not exclusive, we can have a fulfilling end game while also a satisfying gameplay for casuals.
But somehow GGG isn't interested in fixing all of that, the impression they gave me is that they do not care about our opinion, we do not get any interview anymore since 0.2 zizaran for some reason (lmao). They only want the game like they envision it, not for the casual, not for the experienced player only for the developpers.
And as a player who love the game, this is infuritating because poe 2 could be such a good game and Poe1 has the solution to many of those problems but somehow they ignore poe 1 seeing it as lesser and a worse game than their poe 2 baby. But the truth is Poe1 is still by far the superior game and i'm saying that by being a poe 2 player first.
I'm not saying to turn poe 2 into poe 1 but poe 1 probably faced the same problems before and they refuse to look at the solutions that they can take out of poe 1, that are compatible with poe 2 and put them into the game.

TL;DR:
GGG feels increasingly out of touch with players. PoE2 repeats PoE1’s recent mistakes: loot scarcity, overly punishing mechanics, and ignoring long-standing feedback. Maps are huge, maze-like, slow, and unrewarding; movespeed is still too low (and even nerfed); build variety is worse with forced combos; defenses are weak despite harsh death penalties; passive tree is bland; endgame is boring, empty, and wastes player time. These issues have existed since 0.1, but GGG prioritizes their “vision” over player feedback. PoE2 could be great, but refusing to learn from PoE1’s solutions is holding it back.