Feedback based on what's been presented so far in ZiggyD's gameplay footage.

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Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

Watching everything just get absolutely destroyed by something so many doomers said was gonna suck XD


But for real the campaign needs an increase in difficulty for sure. I know we are all used to the bosses, but even act 4 in .3.

I didnt get to see any boss mechanics for the most part and I played off-meta about as off as you can get.

What did you end up playing? Was it an SSF character?

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Mikrotherion#4706 wrote:

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IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

Artificially challenging yourself is not the same as actual difficulty scaling with incentives to do so. Now, we could argue on what those incentives should be, I just suggested the traditional method which is an increase in loot drops.

Which is a contradiction in itself. Better loot drops -> better gear -> easier game.

I think they got it quite right in Ruthless in PoE, although that had some other issues that made me not enjoy it as much (lack of movement skills, low drop rates (fine) also affecting drop of support gems).

There's definitely correlation between better loot and difficulty.. especially in PoE2 where items provide so much power (which I think should be toned down anyway, especially +level of gems) but to say it's a contradiction as a blanket statement is just ignoring all the games that do it successfully.

It all highly depends on the potency of said increase in loot drops and what it affects more specifically as well as how much said difficulty is scaled in comparison to the bonus provided.

Not to mention that you're ignoring the time component here, difficulty scaling by itself should make all fights last longer, that alone should garner more rewards compared to a lower difficulty setting before we even talk about incentives.

Ruhtless was an interesting experiment but it didn't quite make the game more difficult in a way that most people think of difficulty. I would rather describe Ruthless as making the game more tedious. That was also another way of artificially inducing difficulty which is why it didn't have much success. Big part of it was also due to a lack of engaging combat.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

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Mikrotherion#4706 wrote:

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IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

Artificially challenging yourself is not the same as actual difficulty scaling with incentives to do so. Now, we could argue on what those incentives should be, I just suggested the traditional method which is an increase in loot drops.

Which is a contradiction in itself. Better loot drops -> better gear -> easier game.

I think they got it quite right in Ruthless in PoE, although that had some other issues that made me not enjoy it as much (lack of movement skills, low drop rates (fine) also affecting drop of support gems).

There's definitely correlation between better loot and difficulty.. especially in PoE2 where items provide so much power (which I think should be toned down anyway, especially +level of gems) but to say it's a contradiction as a blanket statement is just ignoring all the games that do it successfully.

It all highly depends on the potency of said increase in loot drops and what it affects more specifically as well as how much said difficulty is scaled in comparison to the bonus provided.

Not to mention that you're ignoring the time component here, difficulty scaling by itself should make all fights last longer, that alone should garner more rewards compared to a lower difficulty setting before we even talk about incentives.

Ruhtless was an interesting experiment but it didn't quite make the game more difficult in a way that most people think of difficulty. I would rather describe Ruthless as making the game more tedious. That was also another way of artificially inducing difficulty which is why it didn't have much success. Big part of it was also due to a lack of engaging combat.

Yes. + skill level stats and passives need to be removed and the base damage of 1-20 buffed to make up the difference. Then actual balance can be attempted. Until then, + skill levels is either required to make a crap skill work (some need to be 30+ to be useful late game) or it makes the already good gems OP. Cant balance a game around needing those stats.

Same with movement speed. 100% increased effect was the dumbest thing they ever did. Really showed they don't test anything to be honest. Base movement speed should be 10-20% higher but overall movement speed on the top end lowered some. Rhoa is them shooting themselves in the foot again tho. And they stated they want more mounts in the game.... It's times like that, that make me go what are you even trying to make?

Turns the game into the have nots complaining about the haves.

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Soulsniper1313#7576 wrote:

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Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

Watching everything just get absolutely destroyed by something so many doomers said was gonna suck XD


But for real the campaign needs an increase in difficulty for sure. I know we are all used to the bosses, but even act 4 in .3.

I didnt get to see any boss mechanics for the most part and I played off-meta about as off as you can get.

What did you end up playing? Was it an SSF character?

FortCry/Resonating Shield Titan
Solar Orb Storm Weaver

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Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

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Soulsniper1313#7576 wrote:

"

Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

Watching everything just get absolutely destroyed by something so many doomers said was gonna suck XD


But for real the campaign needs an increase in difficulty for sure. I know we are all used to the bosses, but even act 4 in .3.

I didnt get to see any boss mechanics for the most part and I played off-meta about as off as you can get.

What did you end up playing? Was it an SSF character?

FortCry/Resonating Shield Titan
Solar Orb Storm Weaver

Interesting. I did see a Res Shield build that was quite strong. Moved like a snail but did clear well.

Now the Solar Orb Storm Weaver sounds interesting. How did it go? Did you just place them on the ground and pull mobs to it? With proper scaling I bet it did well on bosses but I would think it lacked in clear department.

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Soulsniper1313#7576 wrote:

Interesting. I did see a Res Shield build that was quite strong. Moved like a snail but did clear well.

Now the Solar Orb Storm Weaver sounds interesting. How did it go? Did you just place them on the ground and pull mobs to it? With proper scaling I bet it did well on bosses but I would think it lacked in clear department.

Fort cry is the thing that does the damage. Resonating just uses it as an empowered attack.

And the best part is you are just actively blocking the entire time. And getting fort cries extra health bonus (340) permanently.

Was fun discovering this interaction in .3 when they added fort cry.



Solar orb they moved to a staff skill. Played it when it was a skill in .2
Then remade it in .3, was hard but a big improvement over my .2 character.

Solar orb is just you place down orbs and laugh. The ignite from it(standing near or under it) is like baseline incinerate so its stupid strong.

Its pulse does decent enough damage for clear as well.

I mean I can put 3 down and socket aoe on it so it cleared fine. Costs no mana (mistake on GGG's part) and you just have full mana the whole time.


And that thing is just getting nothing but buffs tomorrow which is hilarious.

Talking of SSF, since I've seen it mentioned quite a lot too, but I have to say... SSF is very similar to Ruthless in a way since it creates scarcity of item power in a similar fashion, by making trade unavailable. And I don't think it's bad or anything but there are a few reasons why it doesn't quite hit the mark.

The problem with these type of game modes is that they make it difficult to engage with one of the most exciting things PoE has to offer, and honestly, one of the reasons I even played PoE1 to begin with despite heavily disliking what actual combat had to offer... which is the whole building aspect of the game, theorycrafting, experimenting with builds and interaction ideas.

You lose a lot of this aspect in SSF because you can't really get some of the most basic uniques till the end of your playthrough should you want to experiment.

And like I've mentioned before as well, since this difficulty is kind of artificially induced in nature, just making it harder to kill monsters doesn't necessarily mean difficulty ramps up in a way most people think of good difficulty. If the monster doesn't feel satisfying to fight against and dies really slowly.. it just feels like a damage sponge, and that's not fun at all.

This is why I've been suggesting via other posts as well that rares should have more varied abilities and be like "mini bosses" in a sense.

That being said, if item power wasn't so high as is right now anyway regardless of trade involvement, SSF would've been the best way to test out how well most encounters feel in terms of combat, now that density has been reduced in lategame. (A limited test in endgame, but still a decent test nonetheless)