Why is warrior so much like an action game character? i mean souls like or similars

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WhisperSlade#0532 wrote:

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Soulsniper1313#7576 wrote:

So again I have to ask, why cant both play styles be ok? Why cant a player make the choice to play slow and methodical or zoom?

Only response I ever see to this is around trade to which I respond, then you care more about trade than a fun playstyle.

It's not just about the economic advantages from following the zoom meta, but also about how the game needs to be balanced to have monsters rush and one-shot you before you can delete them from across the screen, and how that balance affects other builds. Unless of course you think that the game should not offer any sort of threat to that build at all.

Imagine this hypothetical scenario if you please:

- Imagine there is one particular Ascendancy/skill combination in a build that allows you to enter a map, kill all of the monsters on the map with a couple clicks within a few seconds, and then you spend the rest of the map running around to pick up all the loot.

- Now imagine that everyone is playing this build; use your imagination why.

- Then pretend that, for some reason, you think this might not be good for the game.

- Now picture your conversation with the person who tells you "You know, you could just not play this build, and leave my fun alone. I'm having so much fun."


Another hypothetical scenario:
- There's a button in the game labeled "generate unlimited divine orbs"
- Everyone is clicking it. They have many divines. They are really enjoying it.
- Please stop trying to ruin their fun, you don't have to click the button if you don't like it.

So everyone would play that build because its more fun for them? Or because its more loot faster? I cant think of another reason why they would so like I said its about trade or fun. If you don't want builds like that but want them all to be slow then you care more about trade and forcing players to play the way you want than you do about the overall fun of the player base.

I don't need to imagine the conversation. I am having it right now. I have played both fast and slow builds in this. I have more fun with the speed. I don't enjoy anything like what combo parry gameplay you may be wanting to push. I feel like it is extremely safe to say that basically no one plays parry. Why is that? Is it because its not as fun than going fast or killing massive groups at once? I will let you imagine what that answer is.

As for your hypothetical scenario... of course that would not be the same thing. But I will humor you with a response. What you are trying to demonstrate is the loot difference between zoomers vs the parry johnathans, correct? Well that already exists in the game. Its all about speed, efficiency, build, and game time.

You and I can play the exact same build. If you play 8 hours a day and I play 2. Who do you think would have more divines and be pressing the button in this scenario?

If we play the same build and I sit in town sorting all drops and you have a loot filter and only pick up good stuff, who will progress faster and be pressing the button in this scenario?

If we play the same build and I read all text in the campaign and you skip it to get to maps faster, who will progress faster and be pressing the button in this scenario?

Each of those scenarios I made the decision to do those things because they are enjoyable. You didn't because you don't find them enjoyable. Now if there was not a skip button on dialogue or you were forced to pick up all items or no loot filter etc. You would be forced to play my way. Yet, if there were options, then I can choose to or not to. Do you not see the difference?

So again, your entire argument is based on the economy. Which again, my response is you care more about trade than the fun of the player.

In a zoom game, you can zoom or play slow.
In a slow game, you cant zoom and can only play slow.

So imagine if you will, a game where the player gets to choose how they play. Weather to be a hideout warrior, a zoomer, a role playing parry player, a dark souls like player, or any other type you can think of.

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Soulsniper1313#7576 wrote:

If you don't want builds like that but want them all to be slow then you care more about trade and forcing players to play the way you want than you do about the overall fun of the player base.

I'd like to go through and answer more of your points specifically, but I'd like to put emphasis on one question first, which might elucidate some things. If there's something specific you want me to address, point it out.

If you could play Lightning Arrow Deadeye just as it is, but in order to ascend you must take the node "-90% item quantity" would you play it?

i dont like maces at all
skills force to stand in place and atk
some skills have charge time and u locked in place

why would i play that if i can walk and cast magic or walk and atk whit ranged bow?

Why does everyone think a game with animation locks is souls-like?

The only defining feature of souls I ever noticed was cheap deaths that only get you once and are thus utterly pointless and mean spirited turds people call then difficulty.

At any rate. This is GGG. So don't play melee. They don't know how to design it.

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Biggles747#1854 wrote:

i like the warrior implementation. it feels like a warrior. i'm currently playing a titan. giant leap into the monsters with a beefy two hander. slam, slam, aftershocks. dodge out of trouble. slam some more, more aftershocks. requires some work and attention. dodge was great until they bound sprint to the same button. accidental sprint has killed me a lot. nice idea, poor implementation.
last league i made a thorns/bleed smith of kitava. super tanky, slow but effective. things for the most past died as they crashed against me.

They should let us change the dodge+sprint behavior in the settings. I'd like to turn the sprint function off and have my dodge only do dodge.

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Evilsmiter#8011 wrote:

They should let us change the dodge+sprint behavior in the settings. I'd like to turn the sprint function off and have my dodge only do dodge.

I also died because of sprinting after a blink and lost 1 citadel because of that. This is very frustrating and shows that GGG still doesn't test their games and use players as testers. You pay them to be testers.

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WhisperSlade#0532 wrote:

Deadeye = fomo

Now I can already hear you saying "You think just because the mace warrior is slow, that makes it methodical and interesting?" Well no, of course not. But you certainly won't get to 'interesting' gameplay with one-click builds that wipe the screen before you can see monster mechanics. Having to engage with the combat is just the first step toward a fun combat system.

Lets assume that we want to buy a ring.

We both go to the market and look: nice ring T0 for both of our builds, but it costs 20 div.

I open my man-purse and I pay the man.

Why? Because I have been farming 5 divines per hour, and I can afford it.
And your "interesting build" is not farming a flying crap.

So I equip my ring. And now I am farming 10 divines per hour. Couldn't be happier.

And here is the big question:

While everyone is doing juiced maps, T3 pinnacles, high-end farming strategies... Will you be happy doing white maps?

Will you honestly feel satisfied, when your build is not going anywhere near the good players?

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I know the answer to that question. No.
You do not want to spend 10 minutes epic battle hearing in your head some epic ATARI 1990` game music.

And then get a shitty regal shard as reward...

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Evilsmiter#8011 wrote:

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Biggles747#1854 wrote:

i like the warrior implementation. it feels like a warrior. i'm currently playing a titan. giant leap into the monsters with a beefy two hander. slam, slam, aftershocks. dodge out of trouble. slam some more, more aftershocks. requires some work and attention. dodge was great until they bound sprint to the same button. accidental sprint has killed me a lot. nice idea, poor implementation.
last league i made a thorns/bleed smith of kitava. super tanky, slow but effective. things for the most past died as they crashed against me.

They should let us change the dodge+sprint behavior in the settings. I'd like to turn the sprint function off and have my dodge only do dodge.

i agree. that would be my wish too

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Skellymancer#5263 wrote:

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WhisperSlade#0532 wrote:

Deadeye = fomo

Now I can already hear you saying "You think just because the mace warrior is slow, that makes it methodical and interesting?" Well no, of course not. But you certainly won't get to 'interesting' gameplay with one-click builds that wipe the screen before you can see monster mechanics. Having to engage with the combat is just the first step toward a fun combat system.

Lets assume that we want to buy a ring.

We both go to the market and look: nice ring T0 for both of our builds, but it costs 20 div.

I open my man-purse and I pay the man.

Why? Because I have been farming 5 divines per hour, and I can afford it.
And your "interesting build" is not farming a flying crap.

So I equip my ring. And now I am farming 10 divines per hour. Couldn't be happier.

And here is the big question:

While everyone is doing juiced maps, T3 pinnacles, high-end farming strategies... Will you be happy doing white maps?

Will you honestly feel satisfied, when your build is not going anywhere near the good players?

---------

I know the answer to that question. No.
You do not want to spend 10 minutes epic battle hearing in your head some epic ATARI 1990` game music.

And then get a shitty regal shard as reward...

You just affirmed my point, it's FOMO.

It doesn't make you a good player to use the most popular meta build. Everyone knew Deadeye would outpace everything else before the league launched.

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If the game allowed an ascendancy/build which could clear an entire map with one-click, 95%+ of the user base would be playing it. That's not a sign of smart or fun game design, it's a sign of imbalance and incentive structures.

If you had a button in your inventory labeled "generate unlimited divine orbs", everyone would use it. Good game design? Good for the players? I don't think so.