Thousands hours later: why players drops and how to bring more fun to the game loop

"

Peeveswozere#2395 wrote:

"

TheLoCoLacan#8685 wrote:

I was loving it and thought the last patch was good....until I realised I had to kill a boss every map. Insta log out. I am praying this is made optional.

I don't personally see an issue with it, but I'd bring back the rare on minimap and clearing rares as another option other than just bosses. It makes you happy for not having to clear boss, and me happy so that I can see the rares again.

Yeah, just make it an option. Some builds can handle bosses fine and others can do it but it takes too long and is riskier (to be doing it every map). I dont think its uncommon for people to do at least a bit of risk management, if not for levelling in sc, then def in hc. Bosses just add another thing to the game you have to avoid and making that compulsory is just why I left (for now).

"

TheLoCoLacan#8685 wrote:

Bosses just add another thing to the game you have to avoid and making that compulsory is just why I left (for now).

I don't know why, but after all these years, I get the feeling that GGG is having fun forcing players to do things in the game as if it's their job. Same for the Trials. They did that with the lab in PoE1 too. Also forcing you to play their campaign from 0 to end everytime you want to try a new build. If you don't like it, which is so sad because it is a key feature for the real endgame, the solution is leaving the game. Hilarious.

"

Peeveswozere#2395 wrote:

"

Jobama#9902 wrote:

I take issue with difficulty scaling and even rarity, Higher tier maps = enemies do more damage, thats it, thats how difficulty is handled and scaled, this is whats resulting in all the random 1 shots from an enemy I didn't see that was on the edge of my screen, and every boss attack almost 1 shotting regardless of armour/evasion, core game caters to energy shield and even ranged classes, rarity is just a joke, you dont realize how much of a difference it makes untill you start mapping with someone else and notice 100% more yellows/higher tiers and greater currency...

Honestly, I'd delete rarity the way they did with quantity in PoE1, at the same time it's a good added difficulty if you want to go fast and hit hard. Maybe more balancing is all it's needed?

Another interesting point you make is about difficulty scaling, I think just scaling numbers is uninspired. They are not lacking creativity - although reusing assets is a core philosophy -, so I would expect something more.

Random encounters like in Fallout 1 and 2? Boss-ridden maps? Not sure, but something on the side of "more numbers"

Very good take, More balancing would fine tune it just right, I was a week into the season when I started thinking to myself what's the point, like I'm not getting any better drops im on T15/T16 maps, drops arent getting better with difficulty, ive already juiced my maps but t15/t16 really only affects item gear level...
but when theres someone else out there in the same place I am, but has a partner to run maps with? they get so much more from 1 map then I would see in 2-5, that started to kill my enjoyment I would look at a map and think ya I could run that or get someone to leech for xp get way better drops and not give them anything, I no longer want to run maps solo, yet I love playing solo, not with groups 24/7, I can get someone to leech for xp and keep all drops for myself, but how is that fair?? "oh well its my map I'm giving you the courtesy of getting to join me so I get all drops" that's just not fair, with how much of a difference 1 other player makes let alone multiple, then having randoms just not listen steal your divines, trying to split up loot evenly and people still not listening and stealing... well play with friends then not randoms find a guild! my friends have already lost all motivation, I find this community to be very divisive and don't like playing follow the leader, Balance out the playing field for solo's is all I'm asking

As far as the difficulty scaling it lacks alot of creativity, just more damage and call it a day! I want to see more variety, different attacks at higher tiers, different boss phases etc, not just exact same boss phases but more dps, reusing bosses is fine, atleast reskin them, or eliminate some from map pool entirely, I'm talking about aurelian the grand adjudicator and bosses who follow similar structure aka going invulnerable at end where you then have to outlive their invulnerability, like compare that fight with Tierney the hateful, these are 2 bosses that can appear in maps, 1 just sits there and can be insta'd in seconds, other one you have to outlive a dumb invulnerable phase takes double the amount of time/effort, some bosses are perfect for mapping others are perfect for campaign and story telling. So many different approaches could be taken

spears, crossbows and bows need more nerfs (lightning skills)

"

PyleWarlord#7248 wrote:

spears, crossbows and bows need more nerfs (lightning skills)

Looking at the state of the game, I feel you. But I want to believe that the real solution is to buff the rest

Bump

"

Peeveswozere#2395 wrote:

In general, the issue is a lack of fun, coming from different sides.

While you are spot on here, I don't think you've touched upon the real reason behind it. Which is the gameplay itself... which is boring.

Why it's boring? Because it quickly becomes less and less engaging as you play... reverting to the same clear screen thing as PoE1. That's why PoE1 has such a steep decline in players every season as well. Even those that enjoy it grow bored of it quickly. It's just the nature of things.

Has anyone ever stopped to think why PvP games in general tend to have good player retention?

That's because other players always present a challenge to fight against and It is highly engaging to fight them.

A purely PvE game can't exactly achieve that level of retention but not doing your best to provide as much challenge and engagement as possible will obviously result in much less retention.

Didn’t reading whole thread but this:

"

Weaver#3527 wrote:

I'd keep playing if I could actually get ritual tablets to get omens but I can't and it doesn't look like they care to fix what I assume is a bug.

IMO SC players drop mainly when the trade market inflation outpaces their ability to keep up. Since you no longer can trade gear to improve your character you're stuck. This was mostly okay in 0.3 since you could actually put some time in to get the omens you need for a good craft - but now you can't in 0.3.1 so there's just no hope and the omen prices are skyrocketing.

The long and short of it is people quit when they feel like they've hit a wall that will take way too long to climb. This can be either in terms of impossible to get gear, "impossible" to level chars, or even when you're fully completed the character and all content.

You're then left with the choice of either trying to do an alt and slog through the campaign again or just quit.

This is the exact my experience. Now I’m in that state where with my alt lvl 12 I m so bored from campaign again (I quit that, deleted…) and my main stuck - nothing to do now 😞

"

IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

"

Peeveswozere#2395 wrote:

In general, the issue is a lack of fun, coming from different sides.

While you are spot on here, I don't think you've touched upon the real reason behind it. Which is the gameplay itself... which is boring.

Why it's boring? Because it quickly becomes less and less engaging as you play... reverting to the same clear screen thing as PoE1. That's why PoE1 has such a steep decline in players every season as well. Even those that enjoy it grow bored of it quickly. It's just the nature of things.

I am not sure what is the "one" thing, but from my poe1 experience I can tell that when you get to screen clearing it means you're done indeed, little to do after that

As a newcomer, I set myself a target to finish all pinnacle content for the first time before quitting this season. I've stopped playing at lvl 87 (2nd seasonal char).

The main reason is that gameplay isn't fun. If the gameplay isn't fun, I'm not gonna finish my POE2 PHD on Google/Youtube. Billions of mechanics...

POE2 has many positive going on. That's why I will play Druid next season. But the game also has so many negative things going on and that's why I will stop around 80.

Spamming one button to clear maps - using 2 button proc combo to beat bosses. Combat is too fast and not engaging in any way. Did you make a mistake? No way to recover and boom you're dead - one shotted. You're not human, you're not supposed to make a mistake. Enjoy losing xp.

Nothing carries more important than the gameplay. Even during campaign, the level of engagement in the combat isn't good. But it's definitely better than the end game I've managed to see myself, up until tier 15 maps.

Very tough job to do it right. I get it. But don't see how they will keep this new acquired players w/o getting the gameplay right. Let's see how the streamer hype circle jerk does for GGG after 2-3 seasons.