Future for PvP best idea so far I’ve had

The devs barely have time to work on pve and get it right. Pvp won't happen.

Given how good and responsive combat is in this game, pvp could be hype. It's something that requires a lot of work though and I don't see GGG even acknowledging it as something they'd like to do.

Leaderboards in pve content are fundamentally lame and target speedrunners only.

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rifraf-_-#9478 wrote:

Given how good and responsive combat is in this game, pvp could be hype. It's something that requires a lot of work though and I don't see GGG even acknowledging it as something they'd like to do.

Leaderboards in pve content are fundamentally lame and target speedrunners only.

I agree, they have an amazing foundation. And people are acting like they can’t make ascendancy specific penalties for PvP. Down to character specific penalties tbh.

Your PvP character should look nothing like a PvE character and if you take your PvP char to a boss you should get Rekt.

It should be a separate game entry entirely basically that looks for different primary rolls on gear and tree. Damage shouldn’t be this Megalothic investment. For PvP to function properly defenses have to be viable to the point immortality isn’t possible but staying out of combat for a few seconds can regen your hp/es. Similarly damage needs to be balanced in the PvP setting to the point there is a cap for every skill on every ascendancy.

This isn’t rocket science. People acting like the roadmap is hard to figure out, it’s insane for you to be in this conversation in the first place tbh. You don’t have to engage with PvP if they implement it just like you don’t have to engage with other parts of the game if you don’t like them.

The game would be healthier with PvP correctly implemented even if it wasn’t all the way balanced yet

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Lore#3772 wrote:

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rifraf-_-#9478 wrote:

Given how good and responsive combat is in this game, pvp could be hype. It's something that requires a lot of work though and I don't see GGG even acknowledging it as something they'd like to do.

Leaderboards in pve content are fundamentally lame and target speedrunners only.

I agree, they have an amazing foundation. And people are acting like they can’t make ascendancy specific penalties for PvP. Down to character specific penalties tbh.

Your PvP character should look nothing like a PvE character and if you take your PvP char to a boss you should get Rekt.

It should be a separate game entry entirely basically that looks for different primary rolls on gear and tree. Damage shouldn’t be this Megalothic investment. For PvP to function properly defenses have to be viable to the point immortality isn’t possible but staying out of combat for a few seconds can regen your hp/es. Similarly damage needs to be balanced in the PvP setting to the point there is a cap for every skill on every ascendancy.

This isn’t rocket science. People acting like the roadmap is hard to figure out, it’s insane for you to be in this conversation in the first place tbh. You don’t have to engage with PvP if they implement it just like you don’t have to engage with other parts of the game if you don’t like them.

The game would be healthier with PvP correctly implemented even if it wasn’t all the way balanced yet

I agree. It's something however that would need someone within GGG to be passionate about and push for. Since there's no mod support it won't come from the community.

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AintCare#6513 wrote:

oh gee, steps and protected items, sorry OP not in a shape to go through that but just wait a second.. someone hold my beverage i be back with a thread... it will have black jack and hookers, i promise

I pray your probation ends soon and i see the mighty thread.

Also to respond to the post above this, GGG should be hiring a small team to work on it with a highly inspired person heading it. The gravity of not having PvP is huge for repeatability and the slog each season and without it, item collecting, bis item collecting in like standard is just not as interesting. Seasonal resets aren’t as interesting because they level the PvP playing field somewhat each season.

Not having PvP has a negative ripple effect on every other aspect of the game

RuneScape didn’t have to be a PvP game either. Even in beta there was enough to do that PvP didn’t need to be an option. Old school rs same thing. Even rs2 no need for PvP. But without PvP Runescape wouldn’t exist today as anything but a game some people enjoyed for a tiny bit of time.

Just because you can make something without PvP doesn’t mean the game itself will be healthier or better without it. PvP is a lasting power that can be implemented in a variety of ways.

I’m not saying the game is bad without PvP. I’m saying without PvP you are disabling aspects of the game you’ve already designed and made from being and feeling better. In more ways than I care to type out tonight but maybe someday I’ll write them all down.

The most iconic moment in runescspe and world of Warcraft both involved PvP happening in ways that it wasn’t intended. Falidor massacre and the wow one was that plague thing and one time you could attack people of same faction no flag for like 2 days.

Literally of the top 3 most iconic times of two of the most iconic and popular games of all time, are PvP accidents.

You can say genre this and genre that and PvP can’t be balanced in hack and slash AARPG, but it’s not about any of that. It’s about principles of human psychology and how PvP would create better overall feeling even for those who don’t play it.

There will always be someone to complain, I’m not trying to complain. I’m trying to shed light on how to improve everything by doing a task that is hard. I understand that it’s not an easy task, it will take considerable resources. But it would be worth it in the end. Especially in the long run. PvP is an essential asset for the game to have a very important feel it is missing for a lot of players.

I think the runescape castle wars is a primary example of how to make something interesting with a reward that’s also weird but fun to get.

Wilderness is what made RuneScape what it is. I didn’t even play wilderness but the way it influenced game dynamics and development curves was wild.

Anyway this is just my take 🤷‍♂️ from a financial perspective GGG would make more money over time simply off PvP players making their characters look cool than it would cost to design PvP.

If there was PvP you’d see alot more traction in guilds and more active players throughout seasons. Especially if the end of every season was PvP tournaments. PvP really gets people into flashy characters and effects.

PvP also gives guilds a function beyond PvE and crafting or flipping. Allowing guilds to compete with each other, best 3 members of each guild or best team of 3 a guild can make.

Or even if end of season PvP tournaments were 1v1 format guilds would still function to work towards that goal.

Also gives players a reason to hit level 99- 100 before X date.

I mean I could keep going but I need to go to bed yall.

P.S. a great way to balance the capture the flag type reward would be descending “Smurf” PvP “bis” gear within tolerance level. Even if it’s random and untradable lol.

I think the reason why fair PvP isn't possible in GGG games is to have two builds fight each other instead of making them fight against other content. You could create an arena, divide it in half, put two players on each side, and throw content at them to see how their builds perform.

And finally, create a pop-up with stats like "I cleared waves in 20 seconds, which is 2 seconds more than my opponent" or "I took 1500k total damage." Make them have weights like item modifiers, and then convert all the stats into a score. The better-performing build wins.

But no. Jonathan and Mark will force their teams to create a terrible arena and let players fight like gladiators, as if their game were balanced enough for that, and people will get bored in a month at most.

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Jideament#2792 wrote:

I think the reason why fair PvP isn't possible in GGG games is to have two builds fight each other instead of making them fight against other content. You could create an arena, divide it in half, put two players on each side, and throw content at them to see how their builds perform.

And finally, create a pop-up with stats like "I cleared waves in 20 seconds, which is 2 seconds more than my opponent" or "I took 1500k total damage." Make them have weights like item modifiers, and then convert all the stats into a score. The better-performing build wins.

But no. Jonathan and Mark will force their teams to create a terrible arena and let players fight like gladiators, as if their game were balanced enough for that, and people will get bored in a month at most.

1. Not everyone would get bored of an arena.

2. They can adjust ratio of damage as they see fit in the “arena” specifically.

3. PvP builds are suppose to be different than PvE builds

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Lore#3772 wrote:

2. They can adjust ratio of damage as they see fit in the “arena” specifically.

I'm afraid this didn't work well with PoE1. Who knows, maybe it will work with PoE2.

All I know is that of the top 10 best selling games of all time and top 10 games with the highest longevity of player base literally all of them have PvP .

Sure there are 2/10 of the top steam games of all time that don’t have PvP, but that’s like saying you feel like you got a shot of winning 1/15 odds. Also the 2 games that don’t have PvP are in genre’s where it makes sense to not have PvP.

It’s a psychological thing. You will hemorrhage players by not having the option. Eventually your competition will beat you out by having something “workable” in terms of PvP when you have nothing. It’s easy to be better when your opponent is providing nothing in that space, because pvp is a psychological component of any game.

PvP adds a layer of player interaction that augments what the “soul” of the game itself is. It gives people a way to break up what they define as end game and find more avenues that they enjoy.

Have 15 different ways to pve but no way to pvp is a terrible design philosophy in my opinion. You are sacrificing so much potential for fear of failure.

It’s like building a house on half foundation.

Or making a house of cards with cards lit on fire.

Also again I will echo that from a financial perspective everyday there is no PvP in poe2 is another day someone didn’t spend money blinging out their character with cosmetics that they may have spent.

At every level it’s a net negative to not have PvP. That isn’t opinion, is statistical data analysis.

Diablo 4 to poe2 taught me Diablo 4 devs made the right choice having PvP at the beginning and not worrying about balance. The problem with Diablo 4 PvP was the reward structure and lack of group options (like capture the flag or invade a map type stuff).

Poe2 should make the reward structure Smurf items all the way down to no level required rare items that are slightly better than what can drop normally. So you play on your level 90-100 to get gear to play ranked PvP on your level 1-10 or whatever.

A reward structure such as this not only makes balancing certain aspects of the “top end of PvP” easier, it makes a fair and efficient reward structure for high level PvP players. It would also keep all the PvE players from heavily profiting from PvP items as the “top end” of PvP would occur at low Smurf levels and have gear that’s only obtainable from high level PvP like capture the flag or duels.

Since PvE players primarily don’t care about PvP, it would be a fair change to not let them profiteer from it. Maybe if they see the economy on Smurf low level items that roll higher than normal they’ll want to join in 😂.

Also adds another layer of design.

And it’s as easy as adding a NPC to talk to in act 1 town to “stop experience gain” on a switch on/off basis.

This allows smurfing at specific level brackets without the need of worrying about leveling up.

Greatness comes at a price. The question is will they pay what it takes to deliver greatness.

There will always be haters. PvP doesn’t exist for haters. Just like any other aspect of the game really.

A good way to force rework on gear would be making PvP area have no resistance penalties. Then most builds need to regear for it as they’ll be significantly overcap.

It would also make any PvP build less apt to go into PvE and dominate due to having bad res.

If you like PvP play a PvP game, it's that simple, there are plenty of great ones. POE isn't made with PvP in mind and it's hilarious how much lifting "just adjust skill's max damage in PvP area" phrase does lol. Like they can't even adjust all skills for PvE so there are more viable skills except LA/LR and you want them to start balancing for PvP too lul