[Feedback] Giga-Nerf Energy Shield in Patch 0.4.0

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CharlesJT#7681 wrote:

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Pizzarugi#6258 wrote:

As someone who recently hit 10k ES

I think 10k ES is way too much. As endgame Life builds have around 2-3K life, the max ES at endgame should be double that of life, which is around 4-6K ES.

Then GGG better drop the nerf hammer down on mobs so you don't get random 1shots. As I've already said earlier, even with 10k ES, I've already had situations where I suddenly lose most of it instantly without seeing why. Nerfing ES will just mean a lot more unfair 1shots, which is already a problem in PoE 1 that I don't think should become a staple in PoE 2.

I'd rather GGG buff life builds to be just as tanky, personally.

People just look at the numbers and are immediately like "higher number is better", nerf it.

But life builds get flasks, armour, deflection, life regen, etc. Life builds get mitigation.

ES builds need to invest in faster start of recharge, recharge rate, and a decent amount of es nodes on the tree to hit 7k+. And you need to also get points in stun/ailment threshold.

The issue is that people are using broken mechanics for damage so they can just get all the es nodes and jewel sockets on the tree.

edit: I hope GGG don't see all the clueless people whining and make balance changes around them. They've already conceded too much by not even doing mid-league nerfs. There are so many broken builds that endgame becomes a joke. The "meaningful" combat is already gone.

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CharlesJT#7681 wrote:

The problem is that would be trivializing the game with all this added life

It doesnt have to be huge amount like ES. As i said we have other mitigation that work well. Just some life node on the south of the tree where you have no ES.

I feel like whatever they do they'll always be some meta and broken interaction anyway. People will just find another one after the nerf. Will always be.

Doesnt mean they cant help a bit red life people.

I played full ES on my first charactere and you defenitly take way more damage and the amount of ES is needed. Maybe not 20k but you want a fair bit.

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imphilxd#4709 wrote:

People just look at the numbers and are immediately like "higher number is better", nerf it.

But life builds get flasks, armour, deflection, life regen, etc. Life builds get mitigation.

ES builds need to invest in faster start of recharge, recharge rate, and a decent amount of es nodes on the tree to hit 7k+. And you need to also get points in stun/ailment threshold.

The issue is that people are using broken mechanics for damage so they can just get all the es nodes and jewel sockets on the tree.

edit: I hope GGG don't see all the clueless people whining and make balance changes around them. They've already conceded too much by not even doing mid-league nerfs. There are so many broken builds that endgame becomes a joke. The "meaningful" combat is already gone.

Indeed. People seem to forget that Life has several advantages over ES:

- You can stack life by just investing into strength
- Life rolls on gear can be brutaly high, like 200+ in total
- You can get life regeneration + life leech + recoup life and these mechanics work even if you get hit (ES has to stay clear for 2-4 seconds or more if they have DoT on them)
- Life characters usually have evasion/armor, which reduces or even negates damage taken, while ES users always get 100% of the damage

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Flowneppets#0528 wrote:

Why are some of you comparing ES values with Life values directly? That's apples and oranges. With life based defense you also use other layers like Evasion, Armour and Block. Not saying that these are as good but you seem to blow your "problem" way out of proportion by not actually understanding what your problem even is.

Life + Armor

vs

ES + Mana


CI/MOM wins every time. Evasion does nothing in an armor stack build. Trying to build all 3 means you are very weak to everything. They already nerfed block very hard. Grim feast is all ES lost for the most part so no more 20k+ ES pools but still way tankier than all other main defense combos.

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AceNightfire#0980 wrote:

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imphilxd#4709 wrote:

People just look at the numbers and are immediately like "higher number is better", nerf it.

But life builds get flasks, armour, deflection, life regen, etc. Life builds get mitigation.

ES builds need to invest in faster start of recharge, recharge rate, and a decent amount of es nodes on the tree to hit 7k+. And you need to also get points in stun/ailment threshold.

The issue is that people are using broken mechanics for damage so they can just get all the es nodes and jewel sockets on the tree.

edit: I hope GGG don't see all the clueless people whining and make balance changes around them. They've already conceded too much by not even doing mid-league nerfs. There are so many broken builds that endgame becomes a joke. The "meaningful" combat is already gone.

Indeed. People seem to forget that Life has several advantages over ES:

- You can stack life by just investing into strength
- Life rolls on gear can be brutaly high, like 200+ in total
- You can get life regeneration + life leech + recoup life and these mechanics work even if you get hit (ES has to stay clear for 2-4 seconds or more if they have DoT on them)
- Life characters usually have evasion/armor, which reduces or even negates damage taken, while ES users always get 100% of the damage

Strength stack was mainly for giants blood which was HP nerfed hard. Life rolls are high yes but not compared to an ES base and the multiple 20%+ nodes in the tree. Life has a couple what 3% nodes? Life regen and leech dont stop one shots. ES characters are already normally range characters so they dont have to deal with the one shot pools on bosses/op rares feet.

I understand what you are saying but ES has WAY more advantage than Life options at the moment. For every life advantage ES probably has 3.

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Pizzarugi#6258 wrote:

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CharlesJT#7681 wrote:

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Pizzarugi#6258 wrote:

As someone who recently hit 10k ES

I think 10k ES is way too much. As endgame Life builds have around 2-3K life, the max ES at endgame should be double that of life, which is around 4-6K ES.

Then GGG better drop the nerf hammer down on mobs so you don't get random 1shots. As I've already said earlier, even with 10k ES, I've already had situations where I suddenly lose most of it instantly without seeing why. Nerfing ES will just mean a lot more unfair 1shots, which is already a problem in PoE 1 that I don't think should become a staple in PoE 2.

I'd rather GGG buff life builds to be just as tanky, personally.

They’d have to be careful


Life armour is in an extremely good spot. The armour applied to ele mod has to be the single best change this patch I love this mod

Though.

Still nowhere near the effective, recovery, utility as ES which is mostly what es problems is

It’s not JUST it’s number

It’s the fact that you have access to CI, MOM, insane recovery and recoup with ghost dance or conv.

And usually these builds are at range to begin with so you are passively in less danger as well.


The part of es that is broken is more a full picture then it’s number. Although its number does still scale way too high. 20k+ even with mirror gear should just not be possible


Nothing needs to be brought up to the current defensive archetype that most es users enjoy. It simply needs to be dialed back


Edit: I’m currently rolling a hybrid es armour spell caster with mom and mana remnants and it really is just laughable how much you get from the es part of the tree as defense. Also taking the amour as ele mod and it’s just simply better than my warrior who had twice the armour nothing is taking my 2k es down in a single hit since I have some phys resduction and armour as ele

And even if it does I will have 2.8k mana( mana remnants loool) from mom to just laugh with

Swap will be my tower shield and I have so much stun threshold that I take the es on block node from the top left and yea



Hilarious defense to have with all these mechanics

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Soulsniper1313#7576 wrote:

Life + Armor

vs

ES + Mana


CI/MOM wins every time.

+1

That's my thoughts as well. ES + Mana should be brought down a notch to be in the same ballpark as Life + Armor. The worst thing GGG could do is buff Life + Armor more as that would trivialize the game, better to nerf ES in 0.4.0 to ensure the integrity of PoE2.

GGG you force people to play with specific builds. People are not stupid. People pick always the best with small exceptions to players that learn to love vulnerability.

Stop this nonsense with ES god mode!
Or ES will stop your game to be desirable!

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Soulsniper1313#7576 wrote:

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AceNightfire#0980 wrote:

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imphilxd#4709 wrote:

People just look at the numbers and are immediately like "higher number is better", nerf it.

But life builds get flasks, armour, deflection, life regen, etc. Life builds get mitigation.

ES builds need to invest in faster start of recharge, recharge rate, and a decent amount of es nodes on the tree to hit 7k+. And you need to also get points in stun/ailment threshold.

The issue is that people are using broken mechanics for damage so they can just get all the es nodes and jewel sockets on the tree.

edit: I hope GGG don't see all the clueless people whining and make balance changes around them. They've already conceded too much by not even doing mid-league nerfs. There are so many broken builds that endgame becomes a joke. The "meaningful" combat is already gone.

Indeed. People seem to forget that Life has several advantages over ES:

- You can stack life by just investing into strength
- Life rolls on gear can be brutaly high, like 200+ in total
- You can get life regeneration + life leech + recoup life and these mechanics work even if you get hit (ES has to stay clear for 2-4 seconds or more if they have DoT on them)
- Life characters usually have evasion/armor, which reduces or even negates damage taken, while ES users always get 100% of the damage

Strength stack was mainly for giants blood which was HP nerfed hard. Life rolls are high yes but not compared to an ES base and the multiple 20%+ nodes in the tree. Life has a couple what 3% nodes? Life regen and leech dont stop one shots. ES characters are already normally range characters so they dont have to deal with the one shot pools on bosses/op rares feet.

I understand what you are saying but ES has WAY more advantage than Life options at the moment. For every life advantage ES probably has 3.

Lets not forget that ES users also have to invest in stun and ailment threshold is based on % energy shield, otherwise you get frozen or stunned by literally every little thing. Life has that naturally included.

And while I may have 12k ES and a warrior 4k life, a 5000 damage hit gets reduced by more then 50%, while I take the full hit. And I have to wait 2-4 seconds before I start gaining life, while the warrior can pop a health flask, has life regen, life leech, life recoup etc. that works instantly.

And if you take a look at Hardcore ladder, then all you see is Deadeye and Amazon. Non of these classes are ES users and heavily depend on life, evasion and deflection.