Giant strength Feels terrible

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draco359#5475 wrote:

"

Soritas#0891 wrote:

In general the Keystone philosophy mostly contradicts the stats it gives, as follows

- 2H in 1H fits the theme very well - the downside is also okay-ish. I would say 2x would be better but ppl can do with 3x too.
- The triple requirements to 1h weapons does not make sense here as we already can dual-wield them. Why have this?
-Halving str life bonus is a wtf. We have giant's blood no? Giants are sturdy and can live for hundreds of years. Why would strength not make you healthier.

Now I understand that the keystone needs a downside, but generally themewise it should be a major buff by itself. I would argue the following, however this will make the keystone even more of a mainstay warrior thing than before, so take it with a big grain of rock salt.

- it should not halve the str bonus but give it 3 hp/1 str instead of 2 hp
- If its gonna apply 3x attribute reqs to 1h maces then it should add something in return for them too. Maybe your hits with 1h maces are crushing blows and intimidate enemies on hit
- I guess since giants are enormous their attacks are not very accurate, so a accuracy penalty may fit. It can be offset with the Resolute Technique Keystone or the gain accuracy from strength notable on the tree and accuracy investment.

Im not a game designer and I know that there are many other things to keep in mind but still a few ideas off the top of my head.

The downside of Giant's Blood is more impactful then you realize. The penalty also applies to Bows, Crossbows, Spears and Quarterstaves, meaning that as a Strength stacker, you lose the ability to use weapons with ranged attack because of the high dex requirements.

Also, due to the state of the game, we will have to wait until Swords and Axes come out so we can gauge just how impactful the skill combinations from different weapon types will become.

Personally, I think a harsher, but fairer restriction would have been an increase in armour requirements, because you are supposed to be a giant...clothing is harder to find for someone who is a giant.

This way, you don't have to worry about Int based characters running around with High Life and High Energy Shield values wearing this: https://www.poe2wiki.net/wiki/Treefingers

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Lonnie455Rich#2087 wrote:

"

draco359#5475 wrote:

"

Soritas#0891 wrote:

In general the Keystone philosophy mostly contradicts the stats it gives, as follows

- 2H in 1H fits the theme very well - the downside is also okay-ish. I would say 2x would be better but ppl can do with 3x too.
- The triple requirements to 1h weapons does not make sense here as we already can dual-wield them. Why have this?
-Halving str life bonus is a wtf. We have giant's blood no? Giants are sturdy and can live for hundreds of years. Why would strength not make you healthier.

Now I understand that the keystone needs a downside, but generally themewise it should be a major buff by itself. I would argue the following, however this will make the keystone even more of a mainstay warrior thing than before, so take it with a big grain of rock salt.

- it should not halve the str bonus but give it 3 hp/1 str instead of 2 hp
- If its gonna apply 3x attribute reqs to 1h maces then it should add something in return for them too. Maybe your hits with 1h maces are crushing blows and intimidate enemies on hit
- I guess since giants are enormous their attacks are not very accurate, so a accuracy penalty may fit. It can be offset with the Resolute Technique Keystone or the gain accuracy from strength notable on the tree and accuracy investment.

Im not a game designer and I know that there are many other things to keep in mind but still a few ideas off the top of my head.

The downside of Giant's Blood is more impactful then you realize. The penalty also applies to Bows, Crossbows, Spears and Quarterstaves, meaning that as a Strength stacker, you lose the ability to use weapons with ranged attack because of the high dex requirements.

Also, due to the state of the game, we will have to wait until Swords and Axes come out so we can gauge just how impactful the skill combinations from different weapon types will become.

Personally, I think a harsher, but fairer restriction would have been an increase in armour requirements, because you are supposed to be a giant...clothing is harder to find for someone who is a giant.

This way, you don't have to worry about Int based characters running around with High Life and High Energy Shield values wearing this: https://www.poe2wiki.net/wiki/Treefingers

0% chance you're going to be able to run a sword with giants blood. you wont be able to get the attributes. The build would be forced to play astramentis most likely.

The life change was dumb. If were getting 2 downsides the attribute needs to be 2x not 3x.

If you have a 1h mace theres no reason to run giants blood as you can "stock" run a 1h mace and shield and dual wield 1h maces already. Unless you're using a 2her in your offhand for hammer/superslam.

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Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

Noone runs giants blood with a 2h without getting the mod

"reduced attribute requirements"

On their 2h


If you dont grab that mod, then you are on the extreme budget end of a build using giants blood.


Or you are trying to revolutionize a new way of playing

"

We don't know what the stat requirements will be for Sword and I based my argument based on the notion that the stat requirements will be like with Crossbow - manageable with certain ascendancies.

Assuming that won't be the case, there are still Axes to consider, which are supposed to have the ability to do both melee and ranged attacks like spears.

If Axe brings to the table skills which slow or stun enemies from afar, then Giant's Blood with Mace and Axe will need to be nerfed, because you have super slams on top of CC scaling with the values of a 2H Axe.

Otherwise...the nerf is pointless...unless we consider the fact that Druids and Templars might be able to stack enough ES to disregard the health issue.

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Soritas#0891 wrote:

"

We don't know what the stat requirements will be for Sword and I based my argument based on the notion that the stat requirements will be like with Crossbow - manageable with certain ascendancies.

Assuming that won't be the case, there are still Axes to consider, which are supposed to have the ability to do both melee and ranged attacks like spears.

If Axe brings to the table skills which slow or stun enemies from afar, then Giant's Blood with Mace and Axe will need to be nerfed, because you have super slams on top of CC scaling with the values of a 2H Axe.

Otherwise...the nerf is pointless...unless we consider the fact that Druids and Templars might be able to stack enough ES to disregard the health issue.

While i understand your optimism that swords and axes might affect the whole combo variety of warrior, I am almost 99% certain that the keystone will need a rework prior to that or no one will use it with the other weapon types.

Why you might ask? Simple, swords and partly axes are str/dex weapons. Swords especially. Its PoE2 for a reason. The weapons will follow the same logic as in poe1 for the most part. So with that in mind if you want to combo 2h Mace + Shield/ 2h Sword + Shield you will not only NEED to stack str you will also now NEED to stack dexterity as well. Even if a high end sword gets a hybrid dex requirement of lets say 130str/70 dex. You will still need to get atleast 390/210 str/dex to use with current Giant's Blood which is ridiculous

The same goes with axes. Whatever combat opportunity they bring its gonna fall flat if you need to invest so much into stacking not one but TWO stats.
People will either forget GB exists or sacrifice a glove slot to use those unique gloves that give str satisfies all meleee weapon and melee gem requirements (JarnGreiper was the item i think)