Can we please not have rare mobs teleport on top of players?

good mechanics should have counterplay. Instant (not telegraphed) blink is bad design in a game where oneshot is very common thing. Totaly agree with op on this.

if there is ignite - you have time to dry a flask/charm can activate/maybe use some ability to remove ailment.
if there is bleed - you can try stand still/use something.
if there is ignited ground - you can move around.
if there is elemental weakness - you can overcap.
Etc.
If there is instant blink - there is no solution. You can take a hit because you tanky, you can take 1000 of hits. But 1001 crits and you die. Or just hit the mods on rare which oneshots you. There is no counterplay, just hoping this mods miss you.

"

bloomhead#3858 wrote:

"

freudo#0225 wrote:

Learn. Adapt. Survive.

You mean: Don't change anything, cry in a forum about bad game, play anyway.

That's not at all what I said.
I didn't say don't change anything. I clarified that OPs wound is self-inflicted (triple dmg and increased stun!? really!?). Not by the devs on their product, but by the player on what they chose to experience. Where did I advocate to continue making such pebkac complaints? I don't even want people to play anyways if they continue to self-inflict so much suffering.
I don't want to die, and one-shot bs mechanics do suck. But if there's something I *can* control about a challenge and I don't, but instead run head first into a wall then I shouldn't be validated for complaining about the wall. The wall was already there and I chose the wrong way to overcome that obstacle. I die a lot. If it's my fault I laugh at myself, take a deep breath and regather, then I get back to it. Maybe even take a water/stretch/piss break. If it's a bs one-shot I often step away for a while. I'll even communicate it if I feel it's a complete blindspot that hasn't been brought up a few times already. The studio will have trouble $elling to people who don't play. Money and attention/time are the strongest votes any one can cast.
I don't want to play POE1. I hope they continue refining the balance of end-game to be a bit more in-line with what casuals experience through a blind campaign experience here in POE2. (Each major update has been a mixed bag that seems to lean toward POE1/Powercreep.)

"

Onegar#0494 wrote:

The issue here is not if you can get enough stun or freeze resistance in order to be able to prevent the game from taking control of your character and making you, the player, completely helpless, but why the game needs to do that in the first place. Because this kind of approach to gameplay is in complete contrast with the concept of a game meant to test the skill of the player.
This is the real source of annoyance, for the real people that complain, in the real world.

Preparing for battle is also part of a warriors' SKILLset. Or, to reference Sun Tzu, "Victory is often determined before the battle begins."

"

Onegar#0494 wrote:

The reason is the one I mentioned above: when a character is decently built, he is almost invulnerable to the extent that the game has to cheat (prevent you from actually playing, by controlling your character or surprising you so that you can't react in time), in order to beat you. And that's the origin of all the problematic mechanics with this game:

- freezes and stuns
- overtuned oneshot damage by non telegraphed abilities
- lack of clarity in communicating the navigability of terrain features
- visually confusing effects that makes it hard to tell what's happening and where the danger is coming from
- hilariously quick monsters meant to surround and block the PC before the player can dodge out of the way
- drastically annoying movement hindering monster abilities

BS one-shots can gtfoh, sure. Terrain could use some work. Much better place than 0.1 but I definitely support any valid complaints there. Mobs playing POE1 while we're playing POE2 is another valid complaint that I hope gets addressed/refined, and I'm not sure I've seen many significant changes there since launch. (They made a huge change in combat early in 0.2 so monsters couldn't interrupt their animations to keep chasing you, for example. maybe only example...) But if you feel like getting surrounded is an issue there is Blink. Movement hindering also has counter options available. Those are not "cheat" mechanics if you have options for counter-play. Those are known dangers that the player can choose how they approach, whether through charms or several other methods. I sometimes die to abyssal ground effects because they block my healing. ("Fool me once, shame on me." -43rd President of the United States of 'MericaFyeah George W. Bush) But in reality it's not the pool killing me, it's my careless aggression getting me killed. The game didn't cheat me out of my life/map/juice. I failed myself. It's not always Jonathan or Zaccie being lil stinkers (though I highly suspect some/many frustrating balance choices might be...). And GGG actually do reign in some crap that's too overtuned. Because people complained AND it was broken. (Generally,) not (exactly) because it was a design challenge for players to overcome with the tools available to them and they simply decided not to.

"

Onegar#0494 wrote:

That they give us charms, that is automatically triggering "Get out of jail free" cards, is telling enough of the fact that they are perfectly aware that these random player agency crippling mechanics are problematic and they need some way to mitigate their random lethality.

Charms are certainly one way for a player to address those challenges, but it's not like they're the only way/must-have. So, no, you aren't crippled. And it's not exactly random if you can expect it.

"

Onegar#0494 wrote:

In the endgame, everything is playing "gotcha!" with the player because otherwise the player would fall asleep since the character can recover extremely quickly.

So what you're saying is the game requires attention and can't be played mindlessly? And that's a bad thing? (Which is kinda funny to me because mapping literally puts me to sleep no matter the amount of attention required on-screen.)

"

Onegar#0494 wrote:

And indeed, invariably, the solution that people come up with in order to deal with this onslaught of annoyances is not to scale defences, but to scale damage (HC being the likely exception, but it's a very niche mode of play).
The most popular and the most successful builds are those that enable the wiping out of whole screens full of monsters with the press of a single button.

That is: the answer to an annoying and dangerous mechanics is - obviously - to do anything in your power to not engage with it and to circumvent its application by eliminating the source of the problem before it can inflict damage.

It can be argued that one-shot screen-clear builds are more a necessitated response to the one-shot bs from mobs than because of anything else. And I do want that problem to be solved. Getting stunned and then beat to death isn't a one-shot. It's many things stacking (like TRIPLE dmg mods *and* increased stun in this *particular* example).

"

Onegar#0494 wrote:

We can discuss Ailment Threshold as much as you want and how, for instance, an Eldritch Battery, Mana stacking-specced Sorceress will find herself almost unable to improve her Freeze resistance because all the passive tree nodes that improve Ailment Threshold rely on the maximum value of the Energy Shield, summing up to a grand total of zero for a character that converted ES into Mana.
But this is a tangential issue, one that doesn't go to the core of the problem that I tried to illustrate here.

Freezes and Stuns can even get various levels of resistance in some form as mods on a few pieces of gear, (without being reliant on other stats like hp/es). Hell, there are even nodes on the passive tree (limited availability and potency, I will admit) that are not hp/es-bound.
So, again, is the problem the game or the poor risks taken in build choice?

OP didn't make a big picture thread. He made a specific thread on a specific pain-point. So that is what is being responded to. Just because someone says something is problematic doesn't make it so. Sometimes it's just challenging, and they don't like it. (Sometimes it is *too* challenging, and that's fair enough.) In the case of bs one-shots, I can agree it's problematic. (death recaps being held out on might be to avoid validating all the one-shot bs complainers, or maybe just so people won't complain about every little thing that they perceive as the reason THAT ISN'T THEMSELVES that they died).
And it's good to have bigger picture Discussions to help keeps mindsets framed going forward. But Feedback is most constructive when it is something specific that can be specifically addressed. Making broad/vague complaints isn't a constructive way to help oneself get their issues addressed. Making specific complaints/examples and then turning around to say, "But that's not my issue," is also hardly a constructive way to communicate issues as well.

I think adding mods to waystones is hella scary in 0.3. Where you have to really decide to nut up or meek out on whether you want to scale the danger (read: reward) up or not. Maybe that's part of the balance to making loot/crafting a bit stronger this league.

Seems to be a few mob types that don't have much or very small windows for counter-play at the moment. The abyss stuff is extremely egregious, every now and then you get a spawn of multiple teleport rares, one's bad enough 4-5 instagibbing you makes me stop playing. You have no idea either, just roll the dice that the rares arnt the bad types :\


This design direction seems malicious, with all the other weird changes that mess with the flow of the game. Everything should have some kind of counter play, that's how it has felt so far in poe1/2.


E: The counter play in poe1 would be scouring orbs heh

"

Onegar#0494 wrote:

mechanics with this game:

- freezes and stuns
- overtuned oneshot damage by non telegraphed abilities
- lack of clarity in communicating the navigability of terrain features

The game has much improved since 0.1 - kudos. With that out the way:

The abyss shroud walker with the proximal tangerine and explode nearby corpses (along with its own degen) has been my favorite so far. It blinks, degen and explodes all its former minion and pawns.

Speaking of attrition the degen, proxinal, and regen form a perfect combo.

One shot mechanics are just that - cheap and unfun. Coupled with the infamous fog, fires, high rise structures (so they literally obscure everything), they make for a proper frustrating experience. The spinning snakes bug out and usually require a port back to town/hideout to un-bug them.

On blinking - the mobs can blink when they are stunned and frozen (even both at the same time), which is sort of weird - esp. for stuff that needs aoe setup on the ground.

So you can instantly kill them from afar but the moment they can do the same to you it’s not fair? Smh, perhaps next time to leave them alone dude.

"

bestsss#7863 wrote:

The abyss shroud walker with the proximal tangerine and explode nearby corpses (along with its own degen) has been my favorite so far. It blinks, degen and explodes all its former minion and pawns.

Speaking of attrition the degen, proxinal, and regen form a perfect combo.

One shot mechanics are just that - cheap and unfun. Coupled with the infamous fog, fires, high rise structures (so they literally obscure everything), they make for a proper frustrating experience. The spinning snakes bug out and usually require a port back to town/hideout to un-bug them.

On blinking - the mobs can blink when they are stunned and frozen (even both at the same time), which is sort of weird - esp. for stuff that needs aoe setup on the ground.

Proximal+mana siphon is definitely a frustration point, especially if there's some 3rd mod that makes being close suck. I hate corpse explosion so gd much. Especially on monsters that are way faster than you (or even worse, if they're both way faster AND have Shroud Walker). Some maps you can't see shit because the map itself blocks your view (some of those beach maps w/ tropical trees and narrow paths in the center, for example).

I remember once spending way too much time fighting a Rare Specter that had regen on it. You can stun/freeze, whatever, and they can still go invis and teleport away. That's prolly some ish that needs addressing, for sure. When someone is CC'd they should be CC'd ffs.

"

freudo#0225 wrote:

Preparing for battle is also part of a warriors' SKILLset. Or, to reference Sun Tzu, "Victory is often determined before the battle begins."

[...]

Charms are certainly one way for a player to address those challenges, but it's not like they're the only way/must-have. So, no, you aren't crippled. And it's not exactly random if you can expect it.

[...]

So what you're saying is the game requires attention and can't be played mindlessly? And that's a bad thing? (Which is kinda funny to me because mapping literally puts me to sleep no matter the amount of attention required on-screen.)

[...]

Freezes and Stuns can even get various levels of resistance in some form as mods on a few pieces of gear, (without being reliant on other stats like hp/es). Hell, there are even nodes on the passive tree (limited availability and potency, I will admit) that are not hp/es-bound.
So, again, is the problem the game or the poor risks taken in build choice?

This kind of multiquote replies are hard to deal with, because they lead to losing focus of the issue and devolve into arguments for argument's sake, so I just quoted what I believe are the relevant parts in order to illustrate the more general issue.

There is no way to get prepared for everything in this game. It's designed as a short blanket on purpose because the character is supposed to die once in a while and there are mechanics meant to achieve exactly that and whose counter (when it exists) is so specific that you can't protect yourself against everything and at the same time be able to still damage the enemies fast enough.

If you start to take equipment with Stun Threshold increases you will end up short on Resistances (which funnily enough receive a substantial penalty as you move through the Acts... ever wondered why?). And if you try to compensate by adding Resistances in other ways (jewelery or runes) you will soon find yourself short on damage and you will end dying anyway because you will get swarmed and you will take too long to kill the enemies.

Most of the time you also don't know exactly which enemies you will meet in a map and going back and forth to the hideout in order to change build or gear in the middle of a map to adapt to every situation is an unreasonable expectation. I'd be curious to have a poll to determine how many people are playing or want to play that way.

Anyway, I'm not saying that the game requires attention and should be played mindlessly. I'm saying the exact opposite: I'm saying that the game rewards high damage screen clearing builds that can be played mindlessly while it punishes any attempt at tactical or careful play through punishing mechanics that have no real, viable, counter.
in 0.3 it also tries to force combo-based gameplay on certain classes, compounding the issue.

Check the opening post again: the OP was lamenting that he got instajumped by a Rare and got killed before he even had the time to react. He knew the weaknesses of his build and he said that he was advancing carefully to compensate for them. He wanted to play tactically. He wanted to use his skill and his knowledge of his build in order to face hard content that could be overcome thanks to his skill as a player, just to figure out in an instant that his skill as a player didn't matter at all, because the game mechanics were designed in a way that made it irrelevant: he wasn't left the time to apply his knowledge or his skills in order to play.

"

freudo#0225 wrote:

OP didn't make a big picture thread. He made a specific thread on a specific pain-point. So that is what is being responded to. Just because someone says something is problematic doesn't make it so.

[...]

I think adding mods to waystones is hella scary in 0.3. Where you have to really decide to nut up or meek out on whether you want to scale the danger (read: reward) up or not. Maybe that's part of the balance to making loot/crafting a bit stronger this league.

Yes, he lamented a very specific issue. As do many other poeple in the Feedback section. And if you put together all the complaint in order to understand what annoys people the most about this game, you generally get the big picture that I illustrated above.

As far as waystone juicing goes, the issue is that it is basically mandatory if you want to get any kind of valuable loot out of the endless map running.

"

XxxPssySlayerxxX#5201 wrote:

So you can instantly kill them from afar but the moment they can do the same to you it’s not fair? Smh, perhaps next time to leave them alone dude.

I find so many issue with this reply that I have trouble deciding where to start in disassembling it. So I will just list my thoughts:

- From a design standpoint, mobs are bullets. They are throwaway mechanical bits meant to help create a fun experience for the real person playing the game. They also heavily outnumber the player character by the double digit.

- Mobs are not real living beings. They do not have feelings. The do not need to have fun and do not get frustrated when they get killed. Their time don't need to be respected. They simply don't exist.

- Mobs are a tool to make a fun game. There is no "monster controlling player" behind the mobs, while there is a real person controlling the character, and that real person is here because she wants to PLAY and not to stand there looking helplessly as the character gets slaughtered while she was deprived of the ability to control her toon.

So yes, there is a huge asymmetry in the importance and function of monsters and PCs

"

The one thing you can stack resis against, the other you hardly can. One of them is affected by map mods, the other isn't.

Guess who's stupid now.

Let's be real here. No matter what the mob or map mods are. Even if you can control the map mods or avoid the damage, the tp on top of you shit is out of your control regardless of the situation. If its the abyss one you're 2x cooked cuz of the turbo degen zone. There are several monster mods that are just bad game design period which are barely tolerable usually and when randomly combined they WILL screw you over no matter what you do

Also don't tell me tp mod is well designed until you get it with a HH. That shit will 90% of the time tp you inside 20 mobs, so you can just die randomly. And you can only stop it by taking out the HH.
The mod needs a rework for monsters and to be disabled for players period.