Popular Opinion: League Challenges Should Require Solo Completion

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

I mean...some of the posters in this thread are known from other threads denouncing bosses being "too hard" when they run around with glass cannons and actively REFUSE to adjust their gameplay to the content. So they buy carries. Every league. A total lack of even trying or any amount of personal effort. That's fine for the REGULAR game, but challenges should be focused on weeding out THAT type of play and encouraging you to learn, adjust, and play yourself.


The whole point of this thread is NOT looking at challenges as they exist now: they only exist in this form BECAUSE carries became a thing, and endless grinds were the only way to "force" people to lose something in return for completing the challenge. Their current existence is the absolute lowest possible form they COULD take. And basically NONE of them serve as "challenges".

The fact that you earn 1/4 of them before even leaving the campaign and doing nothing special is patently ridiculous design.

sorry if i m skimming

my take

solo challenges should be a thing
- Prevents carries

solo challenges should NOT be too difficult
- Negates the need for carries
- If too difficult a more casual player could potentially fall to FOMO and might just skip the entire league as they've accepted that they'll likely never achieve the challenge requirements for certain rewards.

And if we're being more specific

Solo challenges this way should be centered around t14 content
- Why T14? T14 is a nice middle ground where most players are EXPECTED to achieve. Many may have forgotten or not cared that the way POE's content was tiered had players being able to access the "hardest" content at t14. unique beasts for einhar and harvest start appearing at t14.

Harder Challenges can exist but make the rewards different
- Alternate art skins or demigods can be reintroduced for those who are skilled enough. For sure there will be FOMO but players could just buy these items from players who are willing to sell em so its not too restrictive.


As for your comment on players actually learning to play the game. This is POE. If you build inefficiently you could be doing 10k-100k dps while a player with the exact same gear but made different passive choices can do millions to billions of dps.

the gap is just so big. i played the game for a literal decade so i learned the intricacies over the year. not everyone has the same level of passion and if we're being absolutely honest, you cant expect newer players to stick around trying to learn everything from scratch. heck, starter builds are a thing. in fact the best way to learn the game is to use a build first and try tweaking yourself as you go.

FOMO is simply NOT an excuse for anything. In fact, FOMO is what should be the DRIVER in making challenges more difficult. So what if the gap is wide? That's kind of the whole point here.
1) Finish the campaign
2) Finish white maps
3) Finish yellow maps
4) Finish red maps
5) Juice content
6) Bosses, t17, ubers
THAT is what takes care of the "player gap": natural gameplay progression.
Challenges should cater to, and require for maximum rewards, ALL of those stages.

FOMO is what makes hard-to-obtain rewards a goal. How players approach their own FOMO is purely a personal issue, not one that needs consideration in game development.

If you are like the player a few pages back who cannot even be bothered to play the game, and gets totally bent out of shape simply by not having the mtx....and will pay any amount of "$$$" to skip the entire process to get the mtx, that is THEIR personal hangup. The game should do everything in its power to work AGAINST such a player.

Much like the eternal combating of RMT. It's not enough to just "acknowledge" it....it needs to be actively worked against.



If a player is so immature that they can't simply deal with the fact that rewards are NOT guaranteed and you may miss out because you simply aren't good enough yet......tough. Thicken your skin.

There are already things in the game that cater to the "t14" crowd: Kiracs pass exists. Rewards in the form of better drops exists. That is the incentive within the game to reach the pinnacle content. Challenges, on the other hand, exist OUTSIDE of this regular progression. They are NOT guaranteed. They are NOT meant for everyone. They are....right in the name....CHALLENGES.


Your comments fall into the very trap of challenges as they exist now: something for everyone to obtain ALL of. That is precisely what they should NOT be. Players can strive to obtain everything the game content has to offer, but challenges and their respective rewards exist OUTSIDE of normal game progression. Taking the "collective" experience of gamers, and pushing it to a new height by changing the rules or setting of play.

I also think you give gamers way too LITTLE credit with the statement "they will just skip the league entirely". Perhaps one or two people in this thread might agree with that (even though I doubt their rhetoric...so many claims of wanting to quit yet never doing so...), but the playerbase as a whole? I doubt that is the mentality of even 1% of 1% of the total players. In fact, many players might not even start DOING challenges or thinking about them at all until they are well into the league, having created a character they like or even multiple characters. It is quite RARE that someone plays this game with ONLY the goal of getting 40 challenges and would outright quit without even attempting it.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

If a player is so immature that they can't simply deal with the fact that rewards are NOT guaranteed and you may miss out because you simply aren't good enough yet......tough. Thicken your skin.

nah, a lot of people like you seem to have forgotten. this is not 2010s anymore.

back then GGG has no competitors. for me POE has always been king of the hill for years.

now we have so many different games and forms of entertainment, players just stop playing.

which i myself already have.

the more difficult the game, the more passionate players will stick. conversely the game's population would be smaller.

look at d4. i can say poe1/2 is way better than d4. but d4 is much easier. they have a much bigger player base than poe.

poe wants money.

i would even say POE today is NOT the game chris had envisioned. it is a series of compromises made so that his company gets money. poe ruthless is more closer to what he wants in his dream game. its ironic many people sing praises to him for poe1 but fail to realize its not the game he wanted to make.

for sure you can keep the game hard and difficult and reward only the upper echelons of our playerbase.

but the cost of being that elitist can be great.

^dude....challenges change nothing about the game. Challenges have no bearing on whether the base game is easy or hard or fun or not fun.

It is a completely disingenuous comparison to bring up D4, or any of the other points you just made. You just compared an entire game to a very small specific "meant to be a CHALLENGE" system, within an extremely HUGE game.

You are conflating "challenges" with.....the entirety of PoE 1 and/or PoE 2. That is an absolutely ridiculous route to take this conversation, and represents the "1% of 1% of all players" I mentioned that ONLY play the game for the 40 challenges and NOTHING ELSE. And even within that particular tiny group, this would be a positive change for at least some of them, or completely irrelevant to some.



And if you have stopped playing, then what skin do you even have being here on these forums commenting on this?

So you all are complaining about clearing challenges solo but still wanna play the easiest poe mode there is with SC Trade? Like what?

Do it in SSF and you can be happy and let people play how they want. Seems like you wanna do everything by your own then you shouldn´t be able to trade aswell.
Btw thats by your logic not by mine and I hope you realise how insane that sounds.

Since many here using 2nd account to write in the forum who knows if you even reached 30 challenges or even play the game.