Planning/developers

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Aynix#7757 wrote:

Im pretty big, wanna test it out tonight?

Don't think I've had that many beers, sorry.

I took that statement to mean that there are only 2 people at GGG who give the FINAL approval for buffs/nerfs. Although, only 2 people at GGG being responsible for all balance would explain all of the random ~8% damage buffs to 0.000% usage skills that stay at 0.000% usage.

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Phrazz#3529 wrote:

Quick question before I drink my second beer while working on a PowerPoint for a meeting tomorrow.

GGG have known for years (way before ExileCon 2023) that PoE1 and PoE2 would have to become their own, separate game. Lately, we've heard that there are only two people qualified for the "director" role of both games, and in a very late interview, we've learned that there are only two people qualified for doing game balance on both games (probably the same two?).

So, my question here is simply: What!!? What are you doing down there? What happened to planning, training new talent and looking ahead, becoming a multi-game studio?

Am I the only one finding this a bit strange, naive and very optimistic?

I'm guessing they spend a lot of time in Matamata on the Second Breakfast Tour at the Hobbiton set.

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Phrazz#3529 wrote:

and in a very late interview, we've learned that there are only two people qualified for doing game balance on both games (probably the same two?).

If I heard it correctly in the interview, there are 2 people that can make balance changes without consulting with higher ups.
Then there are some more that can do balance changes but have to get approval first.

Enjoy the beer and good luck with your Power Point.

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Phrazz#3529 wrote:

Quick question before I drink my second beer while working on a PowerPoint for a meeting tomorrow.

GGG have known for years (way before ExileCon 2023) that PoE1 and PoE2 would have to become their own, separate game. Lately, we've heard that there are only two people qualified for the "director" role of both games, and in a very late interview, we've learned that there are only two people qualified for doing game balance on both games (probably the same two?).

So, my question here is simply: What!!? What are you doing down there? What happened to planning, training new talent and looking ahead, becoming a multi-game studio?

Am I the only one finding this a bit strange, naive and very optimistic?

Optimistic is what many people saw, when we heard 6 months EA before release.
Optimistic is what many people saw, when we heard 3.26 in February.
Optimistic is what many people still see, when we heard new league every 2 months.
etc.

Also, planning ? When you hear someone, as an apology, saying to his customer that he "hoped we could make it", "there was time", still without a clear view, it doesn't take much customer/management experience to understand that planning is lacking hard.
Delays are fine, that's project life, and the very core of a manager job imo.
But if I go to my customer with delays, without a solid plan and showing how I will handle the consequences and measures I took to keep everything on track from now on, I'm just dead.

So no, you're not the only one. That said, does it matter ? Hopefully players are whining a lot, but if the product is good in the end, we should be alright.
I would take a clumsy pationate anyday over a greedy genius.
Question is : are they still able to put out a good product ? Time will tell.

This will be a sore topic for GGG but I wouldn't particularly rate it as an issue of importance for two reasons.

Firstly i think their balance is pretty meh as is, which means it isn't that hard to duplicate as long as you get someone relatively experienced they can do a decent job of it. Armchair dev gets thrown around a great deal but when it comes to skills/items a good subset of PoE players could do a reasonable job and I think many of that subset could do a superior job to what has been done.

Infact you can probably script it including the league nerf/buff cycle to keep things fresh and interesting like dota patches.

Secondly balance isn't actually even that important or both games would be dead already, PoE1 is like the wild west now where any shit goes and all the wheels have fallen off - we've had multiple leagues already by now where Alkaizers meme about flying through the air firing arrows everywhere and mirrored bows drop is pretty close to a reality not sarcasm. As a result all PoE1 really needs is change and fresh things occasionally, the numbers don't matter that much.

PoE2 on the flipside isn't the wild west its a branching maze where almost everything arrives at a dead end, infact i'd have an easier time believing that they hadn't actually set real numbers for the skills instead of placeholders anyway. Because it isn't the wild west though this means PoE2 is the game that needs the right eyes on it because once your game gets outa hand you can't ever put it back into shape really so they have to feather it to the right numbers. There is no denying that its in bad shape right now though.

I long for the days when PoE1 was more on rails but there is fun to be had in just leaning into the chaos and seeing what you can make from it.

So what do i mean with this ramble? Take the balance part out of the equation for staff metrics, they need 2 directors and they have 2 directors, staff trusted to balance to the current degree could pop up out of nowhere instantly if they really wanted it.

The only thing i think is concerning is both are working on both projects but what do you expect nobody is going to want to be on scuffed old *cough* superior *cough* poe1 when they can work on new shiny PoE2.

Based on the interviews and this is as close to individual shade as i'm willing to throw I think Mark is actually the game designer on both games now and Jonathon is more the gateway for the type of game they are trying to make and tries to fit it within those bounds.

*However part of the problem of shared responsibility is because they both work on both games its hard to differentiate their work. It could actually be the Jonathon is responsible for every game change I approve of and Mark keeps making changes that make me roll my eyes. The above paragraph is based on the fact Mark gives the most straight to the point answers about key parts that shows a familiarity of "this is mine". That could simply be presentation style.

tldr: they need two they've got two, how they are deployed is a different issue.

just proved that
1) they dont value balance and that explains a loooooooot of things
2) people complaining about balance where right, and the condescending monkeys on the forums were wrong.


it s true that content is king since with the same balance patch it goes from 200k at leaguestart to 10k after 3 months but playing a fucked up skill has to lose them some players. but again i played warrior in poe 2 campaign with the boneshatter clear that works really well and the game was still ass. so.

i d like to think that balance is more important that how they value it but is it ?

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Draegnarrr#2823 wrote:

...out of nowhere instantly if they really wanted it.

A lot of things could happen "if they really wanted it". They could also have two dedicated teams "if they wanted it". But they "wanted to" put all their eggs in one basket for a year. They also "wanted to" make both games dependent on one man. That said, Chris leaving may have put a stick in their wheels, who knows.

I just come from a profession where creating a transparent, predictable environment (routine, routine, routine) is key for success. And the level of uncertainty and "doing things as we go"-attitude we've had lately when it comes to PoE1 and 2 development is in my eyes baffling.

I do however like what Jonathan said in the latest YT interview, where it seems like they will start to value predictability.

Aside from all the not so favorable reasons this might have, there is the possibility of them having searched for someone without success so far. I also work in IT and the position i have right now was open for more than 2 years so it's far from impossible that they just can't find someone qualified.