The game doesnt teach you to how play the game

And findign tutorials are odd, because how is that when I type "path of exile 2" into youtube search the official channel isn't even on the result?


So the first question:
Is the current endgame an extra lap? Challenge run
Or the first 75-80 levels are only the tutorial?

Because POE2 give you a similar impression what mmorpg-s give to you. Theres a massive world to explore, yet we all know 95% of the players are congregating around 1-2 maps that have the current endgame raids and prerequerement maps.

For me it looks like you start mapping you unlock the true game, but the same time its a horrible chore to get those stuff...

And you give us 5 mechanics that have some sort of subtle hint, and with a horrible false first impression.

Cleansing maps:
Corrupted maps are merging mobs.
Expectation
[I]"Cleansing maps offer you a unique boss and fracturing orbs."[/i]
Reality: I cleared every cleansed maps and in my playtime I found a SINGLE fracturing orb.
That loot is so legendary rare I have absolutely no clue why cant I at least pick which mod I want to lock in?
Even if every cleansed map would give a guaranteed orb, I don't think players would get enough to fight against the rng.

Appearently cleansed maps have some better mod chances... but no clue where to get loot tables...

Expedition
I kept wondering if theresd any meaning for those flags, big red flags, a flag with a whirlpool on them.
The only intuitive indicators are the runes that changes the mobs.

You get 4 extra currencies that I have no clue what can I use them for.
The NPC sells ilvl 62 items. You get better loot from act3 cruel, so that's not gonna help anyone around high tier maps.

We got a recombinator that have dozens of threads already how unfair it is.
Combining 2 mods have a sub 20% chance, and that stage of the game players need like 5 out of 7 mods on items to be worthy to replaced.
I mean I can have a t10 armour and t8 life, but if I get mana regen, evasion, reduced req for the rest it only makes me want to go outside and buy a new keyboard, because the one I used is possibly crumbled to dust...

And in 5 weeks of on mapping, while I admit I am not focusing on expeditions -(in fact I am avoiding them, because those runic circle nukes just wipe my character off the screen even on a white map while can I do juiced up keystones without dying otherwise)
I only managed to find a SINGLE logbook.
Similar experience as the fracturing orb. 1 in dozens of maps... must be rare.
Well... Ill be honest I didn't even got anything extra. Just a map with like 20 explosions. With some white loots.
I actually looked up some guidance of what was the point of it, but the video focused more on as a resource management stuff where the conclusion was
"if you know what to look for, you can sell stuff if you farm logbooks"

Well... I found a single one so far, so unlikely I will "farm" it...

And this is topped up with a small chance that you can find a unique boss.
So what are the chances of that?
If there's a 1/100 chance to find a logbook
that has a 1/100 to spawn the boss am I expected to play 10 000 maps to get that +2 Expedition Atlas point?
(I will get to trading a bit later)

Delirium
Each run gives you a few distilled emotions and 3-6 shard.
Higher level maps give you more shards, but since they are harder I would say the shards/time is the same...
Nevermind... You get your emotions first.
Not sure where does the game teach you that if you press alt on skill on the tree you see the recipe.

But most recipes needs those high tier emotions. I farm t15 maps and only seen 6 tier of Distills yet. Where do I get the other 4?
And with the rarity of drops I bet you most players want those "perfect" enchants.
Not even sure if any inner circle talents worth the investments, since those are seems to be balanced around getting the cluster.

Can you even stack neck enchant with skills? Or the neck enchant only unlocks the skill for you so the whole grinding technically worths a single skillpoint?

Then we get to the slow carrot on a stick.
Simulacrum shards. 40-60 maps worth of grinding just to be spawnkilled.

[Removed by Support]
Do you think after that beating players will say:
"boi... that was fun... Now I want to do it again"?


Breach:
Similar to delirium. Just got my 300 splinters. Didnt died, but seems I still failed. Got 4 catalyst and a few white items.
Again... not sure if I want to find another 60 maps again to be disappointed.

A first attempt should hook the player to do it more.
At least give us an item that increase shard drop, catalyst drop chance, whatever.

Because after a bit of looking into it, the point of breach is getting breach rings...
Again... I watched a video where someone just started to hurl currencies on a half inventory worth of rings until he found a decent result.

The breach ring I found was on a map, not even the Realmgate...
5-6 weeks worth of casual playing and a SINGLE ring so far.
What is the chance that on the first try I will *cough* craft *cough* a ring that is good for me?
Then throw 40-50 catalyst on it...

The math is the following:
5 weeks, around 60 maps
1 breach ring 40%q, 10 catalyst.



"Trading"
And now comes the other part. The game has a droprate what you expect from some really hardcore mmorpg, but in that genre those minuscule chances were justified that the raid content was designed for 40 players.
POE2 endgame experience is like "yo... We thought it would fun to solo Black Temple in WoW"
Because technically there is a trade, but feels like its more tolerated than actually integrated to gameplay...
As if you just couldn't stop players to do it, so you just started to ignore the "problem"

This comes related to crafting.
Endgame currencies are impossible to be obtained for a single player.
Currently those who craft items play a different game.
market flipping, rng manipulation and finding good valued items that can be promoted as "cheap pinnacle beater. Tryhard neckbeard poe2 elitist hates this build"
But if you do that, you don't play the game, you just browse the trade site and hope the seller wont scam you.

Even mmorpgs in the early era had merchant npc-s fr you. I genuinely had fun in Ragnarok Online and Lineage2 setting up my shop and let the NPC handle the rest once I set up my prices.
But that's an mmorpg. I know each character can have a role in economy.
But currently poe2 seems to have an identity crisis. On surface its an arpg, but brutally gatekeeps players.

You don't want to introduce trading, but the same time if anyone stuck at a level, everyone's answer is "just buy gear"

TBH I have no idea how to even trade... I just sell my worn gears to NPC-s. I don't even think the game explains how to even set up a trade offer...

And all this boils down to an absolute difficulty curve.
Look... I get that +4 pinnacle content is... well... its pinnacle.
But even Tier0 are denied and expected player to play POE2 as a living...

There is a saying... The only difference between grinding and farming that one lacks all the joy and fun...

But if you want the game to be about campaign and making alts, make that clear.
But introducing 100 levels, and a whole map you just tell players "this is where the game actually starts"

And the carrot on a stick turns into morning star that beats you in the face time to time, and if you ever manage to bite into that carrot, you realize its rotten and infested with maggots.
Some people somehow love that, but don't have hard feelings if players tap out.


I want to play a game, I got hooked to it, but I don't want to grind 300 splinters, get a minuscule chance to be oneshotted by other bosses and really don't feel enthusiastic either to start raising a new character that can take 3-4 weeks to be on the same level.
Yeah... streamers who play literally for a living can do that, but... I wont.

I genuinely think some number tweaks could make the endgame marginally better.
But if the impression is that any glasscannon with 500k dps have fun, you just tell anyone who doesn't do that plays the wrong game...

Very good write up. You some it up good.

Hello, i disagree especially with your Headline.

Your Opinion stays your opinion, but it might be more a personal Interpretation of your emotional experiences. Some points i agree with, but i think generalizing such a statement is to severe to hit a spot.

Greetings.

Friction is the name of the game, among all others. It just basically just the same like PoE 1 but with even more frictions.

Every single things, every single design decisions in every single aspect of the game, are tailored and balanced around trading. The game force you to do trade if you are not playing PoE for a living, and competing in the market with the one that play PoE for a living.

There are part of the community that just refuse to acknowledge that PoE 2 is just basically the same like PoE 1. They want the game to be "harder" and "slower", yet look at how 0.2 went. Monsters in act got nerfed, "whaa whaa stop listening to streamers whaa whaa." , and yet reversing the nerf to loot didn't received in the same sentiment. Both changes are making the game become even easier, and in fact, it should be the buff on loot that getting major pushback instead of nerfing monsters in acts.

Everything you said is correct.

It's all part of the "vision".

You're correct. The game does not teach you anything. Everything I've learned about the game came from here:

https://maxroll.gg/poe2/atlas-tree/

watching streamers, reddit and forum post.

I don't think GGG is good with UX. They're okay but in general, I get the feeling they think complexity and obscurity are good.

"

darrenrob82#3531 wrote:

You're correct. The game does not teach you anything. Everything I've learned about the game came from here:

https://maxroll.gg/poe2/atlas-tree/

watching streamers, reddit and forum post.

I don't think GGG is good with UX. They're okay but in general, I get the feeling they think complexity and obscurity are good.

This is one of the most useless information of this thread. If you open the Skill-Tree, GGG offers you all the information what Websites like "Maxroll" are reading and promoting as their Offering.

I personally stay at the "Smith" and dont switch to the "Smith's Aprentice" if i a m looking for information.

Greetings.

The game really does a poor job at explaining stuff to new players, and you can see that very early at the character selection screen

The big thing about this game is ascendancies, and yet, when you select a character, the game basically just shows you an explanation of weapon type skills instead of ascendancies, imo this is a monumental and obvious mistake

Right now the game just expects you to have experience with poe 1 and that's it, i really hope that by 1.0 they have a better learning curve and tutorials for new players

"

Vyend#2601 wrote:

The game really does a poor job at explaining stuff to new players, and you can see that very early at the character selection screen

The big thing about this game is ascendancies, and yet, when you select a character, the game basically just shows you an explanation of weapon type skills instead of ascendancies, imo this is a monumental and obvious mistake

Right now the game just expects you to have experience with poe 1 and that's it, i really hope that by 1.0 they have a better learning curve and tutorials for new players

Oh... I don't really want to nitpick that deep.
Usually you play a class with specialisation. In poe2 the reality is you play a skill gem first (not even weapon) that's optimised with an ascendency. :D

Thats actually great, the negative part that there's actually so many build options, yet as a casual I am not really keen to level up weeks for an alt.
There are speedrun strats that you can learn again by community. It must be somewhat expected because if we go to the route again:
- is the game about leveling alts?
- or about beating the endgame?

Its like GGG dropped between two chairs, that can be easily solved, since they already doing them.

They already the best company who communicates with their playerbase. They actually talk to them, however if after every word people rip them apart, no wonder they're silent.


The game already have wall of text explanation, yet crucial information are missing.
And oddly enough the game is really technical, but the wiki page lacks information too. And at this point we have no clue if its a bug or misinterpretation?
Ie: I play thorn warbringer and I use Barbs gem that adds thorn damage to melee attacks.
If I pick "increased melee damage" will that only increase the base or the whole attack?
If I have 5k melee + 10k thorn. =15k
+30% melee will be 20k or 16.5k?

So are information available now or restricted?
Its not a problem if the company doesn't have time, but let the community do it, and someone just need to look at them form mistakes.

The endgame is completely different and I find a random youtube with 50 subs before the official poe page?

Even the trade page is hidden.
If trade is intended why isn't there ingame links?
I have still no clue how to set up a trade.
Because its again... its not part of the game, its outside the game. If its not IN the game, I don't expect it as a mandatory feature. But when everyone tells on every side "just buy ilvl82 gears and you can skip the ilvl70+ content" (t10-t15 drops ilvl70 stuff)

Endgame "crafting" is like a leveled up version of basic currencies, yet rarity is absurd.
Campaign you learn:
"just throw your abundance of currencies until you get something good"
endgame
"you have better currencies but you will find a few per week of them, but we expect you to use 100x more now"?



Early game you only need 2-3 good mod on an item and you will oneshot the screen.
Endgame whats the probability of getting a good 6/7 mod.
JUST mod,
not mod with tiers
and higher numbers.

So the game should show you some efficient strats how to come over the obstacle, not something like:
"we know gold is important, but we made it hard to obtain, because we already know everyone buys gold from goldfarmers"
I remember I tried goldfarming guides in WoW. Never bought gold. The 100k/hr for me was more like 15k...
But was that game about goldfarming? no.

In poe2 however it looks like I need to learn RNG manipulation, tradeflipping and gamebraking mechanics baseline?
Not a problem, but then make an NPC to teach us at least.

Or allow certain mods for the game.
Not autoplay mods. Ban those. But I would actually pay in the microtransaction tab a recipe book XD Imagine instead of playing "spot the difference" you would see the possible outcomes and would be a slot open for omens...

Slots
Oh dear... this thing I will make its own thread.
But we have too many socketable, yet very limited sockets.
Weapon socket is non-optional. Physical damage for me. No alternatives.
While there are some really good gems out there, until I have resistance capped, I don't really have options.

And even if I have res cap, possibly STR or "+max res" will be the top picks.

"

darrenrob82#3531 wrote:

You're correct. The game does not teach you anything. Everything I've learned about the game came from here:

https://maxroll.gg/poe2/atlas-tree/

watching streamers, reddit and forum post.

This is what your usual lazy andy gamer tends to do, because reading, doing research and testing stuff by myself clouds my brains! it's too much!

Yeah, I consume none of that content (I dont look at guides on the forums) and I find myself quite informed and knowledgable with the game, I wonder why? I bet they think the PoE1/2 trees are mindblowing and impossible to understand. BTW poe2db.tw is a great site.