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It's not impossible, what are you talking about?
You never played a game where basically an entity can't spawn next to each other even if is randomly generated? It's very much possible to do, even considering the radius of a tower, like, only spawn nodes if in radius
I said it's impossible to have them be rare but also have full coverage of all map nodes. Radius is circular, map nodes don't lie on circumference lines, so some (possibly many) maps will be excluded.
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To me that would still have the same problem, running a tower without a boss doesn't make me excited about it, also, maybe is just personal preference but like i said before i kinda don't like running the maps around the tower after i have completed the tower itself, it feels like you're walking in a circle without moving forward you know? To me ideally you have to choose a path to a tower, complete the tower, and then you look for the next one
What you're describing is essentially boss map nodes. You can't have all nodes be bosses, or all nodes be exciting. I mean you can, but it would be a different game, clearly they did not design this game around this and it's unlikely they would make such a drastic change.
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Posted byeligtreal#3630on Apr 20, 2025, 7:42:56 AM
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I said it's impossible to have them be rare but also have full coverage of all map nodes. Radius is circular, map nodes don't lie on circumference lines, so some (possibly many) maps will be excluded.
The towers rn doesn't seem to be in a grid so that's why they can overlap, and since i defend the idea of not have towers overlapping, a grid system would spawn nodes inside the circular radius of the tower, there will be no map excluded, 100% guaranteed
If that's your main concern i say don't worry about it, or else i'll have to start explaining how circles are made in a computer
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What you're describing is essentially boss map nodes. You can't have all nodes be bosses, or all nodes be exciting. I mean you can, but it would be a different game, clearly they did not design this game around this and it's unlikely they would make such a drastic change.
I never said i wanted all nodes to have bosses, idk how you came to that conclusion, in fact since 0.1 i'm against ppl saying they want bosses in every single map
Last edited by Vyend#2601 on Apr 20, 2025, 8:15:27 AM
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Posted byVyend#2601on Apr 20, 2025, 8:06:24 AM
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I know a lot of people just want towers gone, but I think the system can be revised in a simple way (from a developer-hours standpoint) that also makes it a lot more enjoyable:
- towers don't require a waystone: the tier of the tower will be the same as that of the first map you used to reach the tower.
- towers have no tablets: clearing a tower gives " all maps in range are irradiated" and mobs in the tower drop 1-3 (depending on tier) " Tower Markers"
- Tower Markers: a currency that you can right-click and apply to any map node, the map node becomes " marked"
- tablets are global: the slots appear at the ziggurat refuge node, and instead of "X maps in range", they say "the next X marked maps"
- tower bosses: certain towers have bosses (just random campaign bosses) and if defeated, will unlock an extra global tablet slot depending on tower tier (white maps slot 1, yellow slot 2, red slot 3)
This solves the tedious planning around towers: you don't have to rush to towers and look for overlapping ones. It solves the annoyance of having to waste a random waystone on towers. It solves the unrewarding nature of towers, as you can get guaranteed Tower Markers by clearing them.
It also doesn't break the game balance-wise: full irradiation is not game-breaking, because you still get irradiation for all your juicy maps now, it's just a lot more tedious to do. Also, having to unlock the slots by doing tower bosses and needing Tower Markers will make juicing more gradual because you won't have full slots nor many markers at the start of endgame.
It's also thematically fitting, I think: "You reach the overseeing tower, you kill its guards (mobs) and activate its magic, which shines light in the surroundings (irradiates). From atop the tower, you can see all the corruption around you and mark where to go next (tower markers)."
Thoughts?
I don't see by what metrics this will be more efficient than its current implementation. Is still a lot of "manual" work, especially around marking.
And mobs drop 1-3 markets by tier, what do you imply by that? How you balance that, is weighted in what way? Every instance of a mob drop 1 market (considered lowest tier), or the mob has a, let's say, 34,2% chance to drop a market?
Towers (the way you want to design them) will be affected in any way by mods? (because seems to me they will be just "white"), basically will they carry the mods of the previous map that you completed to reach that tower?
I don't see how defeating the boss and current thing to just complete the map is very different. It will promote the idea of boss rushing strategy when it comes to those kind of towers.
Will specific content spawn in those towers? (Rogue Exiles for example)
You need to detail further how previous map impacts the tower.
At the eve of the end
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The towers rn doesn't seem to be in a grid so that's why they can overlap, and since i defend the idea of not have towers overlapping, a grid system would spawn nodes inside the circular radius of the tower, there will be no map excluded, 100% guaranteed
If that's your main concern i say don't worry about it, or else i'll have to start explaining how circles are made in a computer
I'm a software engineer by profession and do game development as a hobby, I know "how circles are made in a computer"...
This is a simple geometry problem: towers have a radius, radii form circles, map nodes don't lie on circular perimeters, so if towers don't overlap some map nodes will be left out. This is mathematically guaranteed.
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I never said i wanted all nodes to have bosses, idk how you came to that conclusion, in fact since 0.1 i'm against ppl saying they want bosses in every single map
You said you wanted bosses in all towers, didn't you? I was making the point that they are not willing to make all nodes of a certain type have bosses, whether it's maps or towers.
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Posted byeligtreal#3630on Apr 20, 2025, 11:43:55 AM
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I don't see by what metrics this will be more efficient than its current implementation. Is still a lot of "manual" work, especially around marking.
And mobs drop 1-3 markets by tier, what do you imply by that? How you balance that, is weighted in what way? Every instance of a mob drop 1 market (considered lowest tier), or the mob has a, let's say, 34,2% chance to drop a market?
Towers (the way you want to design them) will be affected in any way by mods? (because seems to me they will be just "white"), basically will they carry the mods of the previous map that you completed to reach that tower?
I don't see how defeating the boss and current thing to just complete the map is very different. It will promote the idea of boss rushing strategy when it comes to those kind of towers.
Will specific content spawn in those towers? (Rogue Exiles for example)
You need to detail further how previous map impacts the tower.
The problem with towers is not having to click a few extra times, but that in order to make maps rewarding, you need to plan how you approach the towers. This breaks the mapping flow, where you do one map after the other, because the second you reach a new area, you need to look at the existing towers and try to plan a path that leads to double or triple overlap.
The towers would drop 1-3 markers total, depending on the tier of the tower, assigned to random mobs. Similar to how during the campaign you gain certain quest items randomly when killing mobs in the area. I suggest doing it this way so there's a reason not to rush straight to the end of the tower and instead kill mobs on the way, at least at the start of endgame when you wouldn't have many markers. Towers only inherit the tier from the map you used to reach them, they're otherwise the same as they are now.
I'm not sure what you mean by boss rushing towers? Completing bosses in towers simply unlocks extra global tablet slots, up to a maximum of 3. After that they're just like a map boss. And boss towers would be relatively uncommon.
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Posted byeligtreal#3630on Apr 20, 2025, 11:55:15 AM
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The towers rn doesn't seem to be in a grid so that's why they can overlap, and since i defend the idea of not have towers overlapping, a grid system would spawn nodes inside the circular radius of the tower, there will be no map excluded, 100% guaranteed
If that's your main concern i say don't worry about it, or else i'll have to start explaining how circles are made in a computer
I'm a software engineer by profession and do game development as a hobby, I know "how circles are made in a computer"...
This is a simple geometry problem: towers have a radius, radii form circles, map nodes don't lie on circular perimeters, so if towers don't overlap some map nodes will be left out. This is mathematically guaranteed.
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I never said i wanted all nodes to have bosses, idk how you came to that conclusion, in fact since 0.1 i'm against ppl saying they want bosses in every single map
You said you wanted bosses in all towers, didn't you? I was making the point that they are not willing to make all nodes of a certain type have bosses, whether it's maps or towers.
Is kind of funny how you seem so fixated in that tower radius thing i mentioned, like i thought i couldn't be more clear with what i wanted towers and endgame map to be like, and i definitely didn't think this would become a discussion of its own
I also have experience in game engines and when you say something like "if towers don't overlap some map nodes will be left out. This is mathematically guaranteed." with so much certainty it almost makes me believe that I'm the crazy one here
Like, if you have experience with any grid based element in a game you just know that this is totally possible to do, i've literally no idea why you're in so much denial of that possibility(?) But at this point let's just end this ok? If you still think that is impossible, sure man, you're right and i'm completely wrong, it's cool, this is not a place for that type of discussion
GL with your suggestion
Last edited by Vyend#2601 on Apr 20, 2025, 12:17:45 PM
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Posted byVyend#2601on Apr 20, 2025, 12:16:57 PM
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