the need to update uniques

Yeah that is true about the Divines. It is now more expensive in a way to get good rolls on the uniques. Even in SSF, it is more costly to use the Divine on the uniques, because the divines have more value on the crafting bench. This is what GGG wanted. I think it is okay, but as it is being pointed out, it makes less sense if the unique items are not that powerful and worth divining. The only unique item I remember Divining recently was a Brass dome in ruthless league and that was some years ago. Divining for roll range is for super top end or the super rich. It does make finding uniques with good rolls more important, but in the context of this post, it is probably contributing to a lot of unique items being less useable against rare items.

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Belegur85#5784 wrote:

Yeah that is true about the Divines. It is now more expensive in a way to get good rolls on the uniques. Even in SSF, it is more costly to use the Divine on the uniques, because the divines have more value on the crafting bench. This is what GGG wanted. I think it is okay, but as it is being pointed out, it makes less sense if the unique items are not that powerful and worth divining. The only unique item I remember Divining recently was a Brass dome in ruthless league and that was some years ago. Divining for roll range is for super top end or the super rich. It does make finding uniques with good rolls more important, but in the context of this post, it is probably contributing to a lot of unique items being less useable against rare items.

Yes high roll ranges is just one unique item qualifier that makes them unique. It does not need apply to every unique item. And yes, I do agree to the other things as well.

Contrary to what some have said, I feel like we have good uniques and that they serve their purpose. The purpose is not always end game viable. For example it felt great when I found Praxis when I had mana problems in the campaign, and I used it until I could fix my mana problem. I love it when uniques have a niche and they do that one thing really well.

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caboom#7201 wrote:

that could work for some uniques but not all, May be the solution is an upgrade system say:

3 x unique item = unique item v2 (total of 3 needed)
4 x unique item v2 = unique item v3 (total of 12 needed)
5 x unique item v3 = unique item v4 (total of 60 needed)
6 x unique item v4 = unique item final vertion (total of 360 needed)

the upgrade would depend on the unique, some would be be the same unique but in a higher level base while others will have their mods upgraded.

if i were to use facebreaker as an example:

standar: (600-800)% more Physical Damage with Unarmed Melee
v2: (640-840)% more Physical Damage with Unarmed Melee
v3: (680-880)% more Physical Damage with Unarmed Melee
v4: (720-920)% more Physical Damage with Unarmed Melee
final: (800-1000)% more Physical Damage with Unarmed Melee

this will also create an item sink making all uniques that can be upgraded more valuable.

We used to have Fated Uniques. While it was an interesting idea to have the ability to upgrade uniques so we could keep using their fated versions, it was removed. If my memory serves me, I think the reason was that there was too much RNG for getting the correct prophecy, and it was not early on clear which uniques had fated versions, so the only thing Fated Uniques did was created new uniques that could have existed without prophesies and no difference would have been observed in playstyle.

As for the item sink, we already have one: Corrupting. But once again, it is not a game changer for many uniques, and that is ok.

Not saying we shouldn't have any upgrade system, but just that it would be the unique identifier for those uniques that utilize it. For example we could have some Essence Uniques that does just that.

Yep I agree. I think they just need to continue to update them slightly, like they did a while back. For example I have a vixens in SSF, which is pretty cool and build enabling. Has only 100 es though. With the new bases, rare can get over 400es. Combined with eldritch implicits, which are very strong and other mods, that is a fair bit to give up.

Another example is unique bows. How many of them are useable currently? There are some being used, but I think it is largely on builds where the damage range doesn't mater, because the damage bows are not going to be able to match up against what is craftable on rares.

Some of those are levelling bows and are good for that purpose. What about the level 68 bows though, are they useable at any point? Probably in ruthless they are useable. Maybe they still get used, but I think they are a bit of a way off crafting.

I also agree in the idea that the rare in most cases should be the most powerful items, but it should be relatively close, to the point where there is competition between the two.

I've been doing a lot of levelling lately, and find that in that part of the game the uniques are useful. In that area usually everything you find could be useful for some purpose.

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Belegur85#5784 wrote:

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Another example is unique bows. How many of them are useable currently? There are some being used, but I think it is largely on builds where the damage range doesn't mater, because the damage bows are not going to be able to match up against what is craftable on rares.

Some of those are levelling bows and are good for that purpose. What about the level 68 bows though, are they useable at any point? Probably in ruthless they are useable. Maybe they still get used, but I think they are a bit of a way off crafting.
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I would presume the same would apply to all attack weapons, but I have no data to prove it. But regarding bows, I'm so tired specifically of crafted rare bows dominating as a caster weapon that I don't wanna do it.

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Celd#2630 wrote:

I would presume the same would apply to all attack weapons, but I have no data to prove it. But regarding bows, I'm so tired specifically of crafted rare bows dominating as a caster weapon that I don't wanna do it.

well, when they drastically buffed most unique weapons a few leagues ago we DO see more usage of those weapons, for longer.

But they have to be REALLY careful because I still see two problems no matter what you do to the uniques:
1) There will STILL be useless uniques. And they will be even more useless after buffing others.

2) The uniques have to fit neatly into a narrow box/window of power: if they don't, it could wildly upset crafting/drop rates/leveling/etc. Too powerful and they become absurd, too weak and they continue to be treated just like they are now.

Yeah I do not thing they are in a terrible place. It's more that the crafting is so strong, and needs to be for the harder content.

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Celd#2630 wrote:

I would presume the same would apply to all attack weapons, but I have no data to prove it. But regarding bows, I'm so tired specifically of crafted rare bows dominating as a caster weapon that I don't wanna do it.

Sorry, quoted again because I thought of another thing to address:

You mention that you are tired of specifically crafting rare bows for top tier bow builds......but isn't that the point of crafting? The unique bows that folks use are for unique builds. But generic high dps is always going to be best for generic bow skill builds. We already have numerous variants on the rare bow: elemental damage, physical damage, crit/no crit, speed/no speed, possibly even NO damage and just skills (although this doesn't really exist that much anymore). I think that's quite healthy for an endgame rare experience.

The second you make a physical unique bow comparable to a rare craft, you invalidate ALL of those rare crafts. No one would ever do them anymore. Weapons are in a special class in that crafted rares should nearly ALWAYS be BiS, unless you are taking advantage of a unique mechanic.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

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Celd#2630 wrote:

I would presume the same would apply to all attack weapons, but I have no data to prove it. But regarding bows, I'm so tired specifically of crafted rare bows dominating as a caster weapon that I don't wanna do it.

Sorry, quoted again because I thought of another thing to address:

You mention that you are tired of specifically crafting rare bows for top tier bow builds......but isn't that the point of crafting? The unique bows that folks use are for unique builds. But generic high dps is always going to be best for generic bow skill builds. We already have numerous variants on the rare bow: elemental damage, physical damage, crit/no crit, speed/no speed, possibly even NO damage and just skills (although this doesn't really exist that much anymore). I think that's quite healthy for an endgame rare experience.

The second you make a physical unique bow comparable to a rare craft, you invalidate ALL of those rare crafts. No one would ever do them anymore. Weapons are in a special class in that crafted rares should nearly ALWAYS be BiS, unless you are taking advantage of a unique mechanic.

Np, I'll happily clarify.

I detest crafting caster bows, not the others. Too many times I've had a build, where I'm looking for ideas for a damage upgrade with a weapon, and the best one is again a freaking bow in a non-bow build. :D Probably because I often like projectile or dot builds. Not really related to unique weapons as a topic.

^yes, those are the bows I also hate. A spellcaster shouldn't be using a bow....