T17s need to go or diversified

I see people stopped talking about this anymore.

I'm hating this meta where you are forced to farm T17s if you want to farm efficiently.
Phrecia is a bit of an exception given how busted some of the idols are but in a normal league scenario the only way to make more currency would be valdos which ironically are still "T17s"

The softcore trade economy for a few leagues was based around farming T17s and being forced to build your character and farming strat around farming T17s.

If T17s are the intended way to farm currency on trade then atleast:

1. Individualize layouts of each T17 maps, currently it feels like you are playing the same reskinned layout in every map
2. MORE MAPS. We need more options to farm, we have 100+ possible T16s and we have 5 T17s
3. Each map needs a gimmick kind of like how we farmed city square to skip boss altars or crimson temple because it had good cards etc
4. Fix/remove unfun mods. Volatiles having pen for whatever reason and instashotting most characters. Lots of mods that reduce your action speed etc. I rather have mods like "Monsters deal 1000% increased damage" than petrification statues.


On the other end one solution would be to remove T17s maps and move the bosses to valdos maps (or the fragment drops). Idea being that we just move the bosses elsewhere and get rid of the ridiculous more modifiers that scale up drops so much. This would also encourage people to run valdos with shitty rewards.

Hell just make the uber fragment drops global and thats it, in my opinion GGG is overengineering ubers and making the game overall more tedious and less diverse in the process...

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moongen11#3745 wrote:

T17s need to go or diversified

They dont need to go

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moongen11#3745 wrote:

I see people stopped talking about this anymore.

Yea, FOMO can only last for so long.

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moongen11#3745 wrote:

I'm hating this meta where you are forced to farm T17s if you want to farm efficiently.

The softcore trade economy for a few leagues was based around farming T17s and being forced to build your character and farming strat around farming T17s.

Not even remotely true.

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moongen11#3745 wrote:

On the other end one solution would be to remove T17s maps and move the bosses to valdos maps

Yea thats a terrible idea.
"Players travel skills are disabled"

And you are over here disliking Volatile orbs of all things.

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moongen11#3745 wrote:

less diverse in the process...

Games less diverse because people want to play safe rather than try anything different. Has to do with game knowledge, and players being wimps, not design.

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moongen11#3745 wrote:

I see people stopped talking about this anymore.

1. Individualize layouts of each T17 maps, currently it feels like you are playing the same reskinned layout in every map
2. MORE MAPS. We need more options to farm, we have 100+ possible T16s and we have 5 T17s
3. Each map needs a gimmick kind of like how we farmed city square to skip boss altars or crimson temple because it had good cards etc
4. Fix/remove unfun mods. Volatiles having pen for whatever reason and instashotting most characters. Lots of mods that reduce your action speed etc. I rather have mods like "Monsters deal 1000% increased damage" than petrification statues.

Great points!

I also feel pressured to go farm t17 but dont enjoy it, as you also need to roll until you get favourable mods. And any farm outside of t17 gets inefficient by t17 being so efficient and rewarding.

1. is a good point, every t17 map feels like only a slight variation havent thought about it that way yet
2. Would be cool. Alternatively we oculd have t16 maps spawn as t17 maps with their respective layouts, making the t17 experience more fun as its the players favorite map but modified in a more challenging way.
3. good point, i approach dunes, strand etc. in that same way, picking specific layouts for specific mechanics i want to tackle
4. "unfun mods" would heavily depend on what kind of build you are doing, and it could be argued that t16 has a lot of unfun mods, but some builds are more flexible than other

I agree and feel that GGG might need to do some tweaking for t17 for them to properly fit into the game. For me they are mostly an additional income as i dont enjoy running them.

Im really unsure what the best approach would be, maybe even adding a twist to t17 or doing some incremental changes could already help a lot, as we would get a new meta and would see if the new meta is healthier than the previous one.

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moongen11#3745 wrote:

4. Fix/remove unfun mods. Volatiles having pen for whatever reason and instashotting most characters. Lots of mods that reduce your action speed etc. I rather have mods like "Monsters deal 1000% increased damage" than petrification statues.

Volatiles do not have penetration but they can't be blocked, dodged or suppressed.

Yeah t17s are poorly implented.

In my opinion the larger issue with drops is the absurd lack of determinism. This translates to players feeling constrained to only play high risk and reward maps/ strategies. The current metagame is just pull as many levers as possible and hope for a jackpot.

A goid payout just never comes for some players due to the nature of rng. Let's say you are farming t0/1/2 uniques. You may never ever see what you want drop. No amount of quant and rarity can make it happen. Instead you have to trade with others to get drops that should naturally occur.

This also means that crafting mats which are needed to generate your maps and craft your gear are at odds with their intended use. Either crafting needs to be much easier or currency untradeable because the current system pushes players to never actually use it. The current trade system encourages players to convert everything to chaos or divines and just sit until you accumulate enough to mirror whatever you want, which is stupid in of itself.

T17s are the tip of a very large design issue for poe.

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roundishcap#0649 wrote:

You may never ever see what you want drop. No amount of quant and rarity can make it happen. Instead you have to trade with others to get drops that should naturally occur.

That is the actual nature of online games though, it fuels trade.
You will very rarely see what you want drop, but you will more often see what others want drop. So you trade the items that people want for items that you want. It's why droprates are so low, but given the tens of thousands of people that play it's statistically likely to drop for someone else.

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moongen11#3745 wrote:

I'm hating this meta where you are forced to farm T17s if you want to farm efficiently.

What meta? It's nothing but a fomo issue as you can farm currency pretty efficiently even without t17 maps.

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1. Individualize layouts of each T17 maps, currently it feels like you are playing the same reskinned layout in every map

I mean it's the same across all maps, not just t17 maps

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2. MORE MAPS. We need more options to farm, we have 100+ possible T16s and we have 5 T17s

It wouldn't hurt to have a couple more t17 maps. There are plenty of options to make a cheap reuse of old content just to quick rush new maps. All 4 shaper guardians combined into one fight would work, same with Conqueror and elder fights. Even the deli duo could make up a decent boss fight if they add a little bit of extra to it, idk. Options for something cheap sure exist if they don't want to put work into entire new fights.

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4. Fix/remove unfun mods. Volatiles having pen for whatever reason and instashotting most characters. Lots of mods that reduce your action speed etc. I rather have mods like "Monsters deal 1000% increased damage" than petrification statues.

That's why you can simply roll past these mods if one bricks your build, or is not to your liking.

T17s are definitely not fomo, its like saying farming T16s instead of T10s is fomo when one is definitely superior than the other.

You get "8 mod" level of quant/rarity/pack size on T17s by default. Then you can add on top of that quality and deli orbs to juice them further.

On top of that because that wasnt enough you also get currency and scarabs modifiers which make some strats so much more profitable. They are huge maps therefore it makes more sense to do the juicier more expensive strats. They are also lvl84 areas which have their own benefits (cluster drops and experience to name a few)

You usually break into profits just from the boss drops alone unless you roll the maps too much.

Sure there are strats that arent really possible on T17s like: boss rush altar farming or toxic sewer deck farming etc. Most of these are just early league farming strats to get your build online. If you plan on min maxing you will need those big ticket upgrades that cost hundreds of divines.

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moongen11#3745 wrote:

Sure there are strats that arent really possible on T17s like: boss rush altar farming or toxic sewer deck farming etc. Most of these are just early league farming strats to get your build online.

There's plenty of endgame strategies that only happen in T16s, to name a few:
- Deli mirrors (9rewards, ~3min map rushing).
- Twist of Fate, risk scarab conquerer guardian invitations (16mod maps).
- Essence beasts.

These are the ones I tried myself and they were on par with the div/hour of 17s.

I think T17s loot-wise aren't an issue but people farming T16s inefficiently are when they just blindly copy youtube.

1. needs more laysouts, some maps like dunes for example!
2. (people will kill me for this one) Uber fragments should drop the non Uber version of each boss. This would make non uber bossing relevant and you don't feel like you have to absolutely kill the T17 boss! add unique drops to T17 bosses instead) Also pure mapper without much boss DPS can now play T17 adding some variance
3. (people will resurrect my corspe so they can kill it again for this) T17 should have its own set of scarabs so random T16 players are not priced out of their farming strat.