The Annihilating Light is "less," not "reduced."

Despite saying reduced.

Is this a known inconsistency?




... While we're here, I'm also kind of annoyed that the Harvest craft for weapon quality granting melee range is INCREDIBLY misleading. It says "+1 Weapon Range" for each 10% of quality, but somehow that means +0.1 range instead. It's as if Weapon Range is a sort of keyword that actually just measures its "Weapon Range score" by 0.1 for no reason whatsoever, but the game never tells you that anywhere, and just fucking goes with, "Yeah, +1 Weapon Range means +0.1 [non-keyword] weapon range!"

Absolutely arbitrary and obnoxious.

Or possibly just a Horticrafting Station description error that never got fixed?? Not sure. Pick your poison on that one.

Uhhhhhhhhhh, yeah, I guess you're right... lol...




Feels like a cheapshot to me, though, honestly. Why not just say Less? All the effort this game makes to have you understand the in-game difference between increase/reduce and more/less... and then when this item says REDUCED, it's actually not in additive nature to your resists, which you DO BUILD UP in an additive manner, just like any other "increase/reduce" mechanic.




Wow. That really feels like a cheapshot, doesn't it???

I can assure you, there isn't a Wiki page on this, lol.

You're totally misunderstanding what I'm saying. And you're acting like "I should have known" how it would interact. Which would be entirely disingenuous of a stance.




Additive and multiplicative are mathematical terms.

Red herring. It doesn't matter if they're mathematical terms, that does not take away from the argument. PoE terms use these mathematical functions, and so, they are relevant to the conversation.




First, let me address this:

You speak as if PoE follows a set of rules consistently, but this is not true. They do not additively group up alike keywords, and make them multiplicative of each other. This is not a rule for PoE.

1) Increase/Reduce all stack additively with each other, and are their own multiplier.

2) Target takes increase/reduce is additive with each other as well, and serves as its own multiplier category.

3) More/Less do NOT stack additively with each other, and every single instance of these keywords are their own separate multiplier.

These 3 distinctions, by themselves, showcase inconsistent behavior between the keywords themselves. Some are additive within their respective category, and others are not, based on nothing at all except that it's been programmed that way.




Moving on, yes, you are correct, items do not give "increased fire resist" and so on, and that is why you are technically correct that Annihilating Light's "increase/reduce" category is acting as a More/Less category, because there isn't technically any current Increase/Reduce acting upon one's resists yet. So it is indeed isolated in its own multiplier category.

I already said yes, I get it.

I'm saying that it's incredibly misleading, and I would make a pretty confident and comfortable bet that most human beings, no matter how experienced and veteran'd in PoE, assumed this item was additive upon first reading it.

Building up your resists 100% functions as an Increase/Reduce category. And so...

... how aren't you getting this...




Never mind. I don't care anymore, lmao. This is such a disingenuous, hindsight argument.

"

ShadyC#1006 wrote:

Building up your resists 100% functions as an Increase/Reduce category. And so...

... how aren't you getting this...

How should "+% crit chance" and "% increased crit chance" function then? Should "100% increased crit chance" make every hit a critical hit?

"

There are several.

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Resistance#Increased/Reduced_resistances

Ah. You're right again!

So I guess I was supposed to just randomly do a Wiki search on "resistance" because this item mentions resistance? Lmao.

You're right that there's a Wiki page on it, but you're still being disingenuous. Am I supposed to minimize the game and open up a Wiki and research every single letter that shows up on an item? You're ignoring my point about the implications of resist building.

"

Yes, it is and, yes, they do. Damage over Time Multiplier is one of them. It stacks additively and is a total multiplier to your damage. +6% Phys DoT Multi and +6% Phys DoT Multi becomes 12% Phys DoT Multi and not 12.36%.

Edit: Maybe a better example would be: Phys DoT Multi and DoT Multi, i.e. from "Veteran Soldier" and "Acrimony" stack additively.

Still a bad example. Yes, I know that 40% increased elemental damage and 40% increased fire damage and 40% increased spell damage is 120% increased fire spell damage...

You're picking things within the same multiplier and saying, "See, look, they are additive!" You're ignoring literally half of my point. Not all keywords are additive with each other. (More/Less are not additive.) And there is no rhyme or reason for it. It simply is programmed that way. That's not a rule. That's just things happening. That's why I said PoE isn't even consistent with its own rules. Because it isn't. But you're trying to argue that it is, by saying that its rule is that they aren't consistent.

"

You clearly don't.

How is this not arbitrarily contrarian? I'm continuously showcasing that I do get it. You just wanna throw in a casual "nuh uh" for good measure there???

This is what I'm sayin'. Just totally disingenuous.

"

Jadian#0111 wrote:

"

ShadyC#1006 wrote:

Building up your resists 100% functions as an Increase/Reduce category. And so...

... how aren't you getting this...

How should "+% crit chance" and "% increased crit chance" function then? Should "100% increased crit chance" make every hit a critical hit?

So I'll respond to this!

This becomes an argument about frequency at this point. With crit chance, the rarity is the addition of flat base crit chance. (And it should be specified in-game that it's base crit chance, for the record.) Whereas, the extreme commonplace stat is increased crit chance.

In fact, the extreme commonplace stat in almost ALL cases is increase/reduce.




Following so far?




99 out of 100 times, the most common stat for something is increase/reduce.




Okay. Now... As we build up our resists, it is continuously additive. While building up a million other stats by INCREASING them additively, as we then work on resistances as well, and see that it is all ADDITIVE... our BRAINS will associate this with also being the increase/reduce category. Because that is what THE VAST MAJORITY of this game has been throwing at us since that time we woke up on a beach. Increase/reduce becomes the default, most basic category that we work with. Both literally in the game, but then also mentally in our heads.




So then an item shows up and it says "reduced X resistance"??? Yes. Like I said. This whole discussion is a farce. I bet my literal life and soul that more than 75% of all PoE-playing human beings believed "increased/reduced X resistance" to be additive, the very first time they saw it somewhere.

So this nonsensical, disingenuous back & forth is totally pointless.




Yowza.




P.S. Edit:
I'm morbidly curious if you got any disingenuous responses on the Weapon Range portion of my OP, lmao... Which actually consisted of maybe 80% of my original post, but you ignored it entirely thus far. Perhaps because you know it does actually showcase a misleading situation within PoE? Or, perhaps, this is another situation where you think my first instinct upon reading a couple words in-game means I should minimize and read every Wiki article that dares mention the word "weapon"?

If I see every other part of the game offering me +0.1 range here or +0.3 range there, and I see a crafting option that promises +2 range for having 20% quality, then imagine my face when I only got +0.2.

gUeSs i ShOuLdA kNoWn!!!

Oh really? If I hover the icon, it tells me "do not confuse this with increase/reduce"? Interesting, I must have missed that.

Your redirection doesn't matter. I literally guarantee that the first time most people saw an item give "increased/reduced" resistances, they assumed it was additive.

Hell. I would even bet that YOU did! And you'll probably preface it with some stockholme statement like, "Well, I should have known better, that was on me, just like how it's on you now."




The fact that you just tried to say that people getting a curse gem in Act 1 is why they should have been able to realize that an inrcease/reduce resist item is a separate mult, is TOTALLY crazy to me.

"

ShadyC#1006 wrote:

Oh really? If I hover the icon, it tells me "do not confuse this with increase/reduce"? Interesting, I must have missed that.

Your redirection doesn't matter. I literally guarantee that the first time most people saw an item give "increased/reduced" resistances, they assumed it was additive.

Hell. I would even bet that YOU did! And you'll probably preface it with some stockholme statement like, "Well, I should have known better, that was on me, just like how it's on you now."




The fact that you just tried to say that people getting a curse gem in Act 1 is why they should have been able to realize that an inrcease/reduce resist item is a separate mult, is TOTALLY crazy to me.

Poe Math sucks --- but the whole more\less vs increased\reduced is well known by more advanced players out of sheer necessity. It's not like its relatively apparent but as one progresses through end game it becomes necessary to do research. Sure, you've got the simple minded folks who take the easiest route and copy paste what they see online, or in extreme cases are a billionaire claiming to be a poe player. Just like how most PoE players would recognize said billionaire lacked the working knowledge for his character.


TLDR - as you start to learn about min\maxing characters in poe the increased\reduced vs more\less is one of the first big lessons in poe math you're supposed to learn. It's not something you'd key into based on tooltips short of extensive research and comparison, hence it being easy to look up research done by previous folks instead of doing all the work across multiple characters and abilities by hand.

"

SeCKSEgai#6175 wrote:

"

ShadyC#1006 wrote:

Oh really? If I hover the icon, it tells me "do not confuse this with increase/reduce"? Interesting, I must have missed that.

Your redirection doesn't matter. I literally guarantee that the first time most people saw an item give "increased/reduced" resistances, they assumed it was additive.

Hell. I would even bet that YOU did! And you'll probably preface it with some stockholme statement like, "Well, I should have known better, that was on me, just like how it's on you now."




The fact that you just tried to say that people getting a curse gem in Act 1 is why they should have been able to realize that an inrcease/reduce resist item is a separate mult, is TOTALLY crazy to me.

Poe Math sucks --- but the whole more\less vs increased\reduced is well known by more advanced players out of sheer necessity. It's not like its relatively apparent but as one progresses through end game it becomes necessary to do research. Sure, you've got the simple minded folks who take the easiest route and copy paste what they see online, or in extreme cases are a billionaire claiming to be a poe player. Just like how most PoE players would recognize said billionaire lacked the working knowledge for his character.


TLDR - as you start to learn about min\maxing characters in poe the increased\reduced vs more\less is one of the first big lessons in poe math you're supposed to learn. It's not something you'd key into based on tooltips short of extensive research and comparison, hence it being easy to look up research done by previous folks instead of doing all the work across multiple characters and abilities by hand.

Thanks for the level-headed response, but I sincerely don't think you... ... read what I said, maybe? Or maybe you skimmed?

I'm fully aware of the differences of these multipliers. I was using them to illustrate a few points. I was never unsure of what they are, or how they work.

Although there are resources to help distinguish between wording on Annihilating Light, I do think using the more commonly used "Less" terminology would have been easier to understand on this particular point.

I honestly think there is simple updates to wording that would be more user friendly. Someone mentioned "% increased critical strike chance" vs. "increased crit chance" wording. I think it could have been easily handled by referring to base critical strike chance increase as just that: "increase to base critical strike chance".

Simply things like that where words still matter, but they're less ambiguous for people who have not played this game for 1000's of hours.