Designing an Endgame for Diverse Play Speed Preferences
" I think just add more loot to the bosses that will be much harder and take much longer then those on Mr.Fast. I dont even think it needs to be as good as mr Fast, just not much worse. I like ofc gettign good loot, but its not the be all end all for me (and poeple like me): the most important thing is the second to second gameplay fun/challenge. Loot is just the topping on the cake for me. Im not competing with anyone here, im just for the fun, MrFast can have a bit more loot, its his obsession Last edited by FireStorm1010#8675 on Jan 16, 2025, 7:57:39 AM
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Imagine a world in which a game for Mr fast already existed and then the company that made that game came out and said they were going to make a game for Mr slow and everyone rejoiced, but abruptly half way thru the campaign the game suddenly turned into the same game as the first one. And imagine if people complained and said this doesn’t make sense, why is the game for Mr. Slow only the first half of the campaign and then this becomes the same as your old game to that company and they said it was intentional and by design. Would that make any sense at all? Would you believe it if I said that’s the world we’re living in, those games are PoE and PoE2, and that company is GGG?
Last edited by maquino85#7657 on Jan 16, 2025, 7:46:46 AM
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" It's fine when there aren't multiple lost penalties. Most bosses in gaming in general the only lost is your time. They make sure you feel awful when you die in POE2. You lose the map, the drops, exp, the modifiers of the map, and your time. That's why it has no place in this game specifically. |
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It all sounds great on paper. In reality theres always Mr.Challanger who is efficient in all aspects and will find a way to make a build that can pack maps full of Mr.Slows + Mr.Fasts content + bit extra on top and we are back to square 1 of people complaining that someone else is having better time with the game than they are.
Last edited by Kodavor#1200 on Jan 16, 2025, 8:12:47 AM
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"So to clarify, by "bosses" do you mean regular bosses at the end of ordinary maps? Or exclusively the big bosses where you need to farm to get a ticket to even attempt the fight? I'm also trying to get a bead on Mr Slow's feelings about filler monsters. Does Mr Slow not mind if white monsters die fast so long as there's beefy yellow monsters or PoE 1's wildwood touch buffed tanky monsters? " I believe the complaints will only come if Mr Both can earn more wealth by stacking both content types. If Mr Both, Mr Fast and Mr Slow all earn roughly the same amount of wealth for their game time, do they care that Mr Both is switching up his game pace? There are a finite number of affixes and other opportunities to juice a map, that's the constraint they all have to work under. "Now that you've spent words describing the problem, do you have any for a proposed solution? |
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I think there's one major problem with the OP's proposal that would likely require large-scale redesigns.
The builds that are REALLY zoomy, do breach & delirium, and wipe a map very quickly are also the builds that could dominate "a few difficult but rewarding" rares on a map meta. Until a major redesign is done to make it "impossible" to have BOTH good clear speed AND good boss damage / boss survivability I don't see how making two metas particularly helps. Without that redesign all of the good builds will just compute how many DIV / hour they can get and choose whichever tactic is more rewarding. They'll still MASSIVELY outperform the "slow" build by orders of magnitude. |
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" I don't think its having two metas, so to speak, but having the end game support two play styles. One style is the fast, zoom-zoom, screen clearing AoEs that PoE 1 has. The other style would be more like Act 1, with way fewer enemies but they have more HP and hit harder so positioning matters more, using your skill combos become more viable, and you can still progress with a build that may focus more on single target damage. To me, more build variety makes for a better game, and if the end game only focuses on zoom zoom AoEs, then you're eliminating a huge number of potential builds. |
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"What would these redesigns look like? An extreme would be "beefed up rare gets 0.5 seconds of I-frames at certain life thresholds, forcing obscenely damaging hits to stop taking the monster down in one shot". And to be clear, the existence of a good player build that can handle both Mr Fast and Mr Slow content isn't the issue. Provided the income rate for the two contents are similar, it shouldn't matter that one build can do both at once as the map content will only do one or the other (or a lukewarm hybrid). Bad builds which are forced to do Mr Slow content at an extremely slow pace earning less is totally fine. The key is to accommodate players who physically get sick playing zoomy. Letting them take a good build, interact with Mr Slow content and stay relevant in the economy. |
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I honestly want the game to be vastly, vastly different than PoE 1. I want the game to be more methodical, to be more precise, to be more focused on the players and less on item, more so less on trading friction. Less about fighting against 500 mobs in a 2km radius map with aim everywhere skills, more about fighting 10-20-30 mobs that test your mettle in a controlled environment.
I don't want a slower game, I want the game to be much more meaningful on why should I equip a chest with life roll, on why should I equip a weapon that has high damage but low attack speed, on why should I do a melee build or why should I do ranged build, on why should I use crossbow instead of bow, on why should I use Arc instead of Spark. I want these stats to be have actual meaning, instead of keeping up with numbers requirement of "gear-check" in every corner of the game. I kinda want something like mythic+ in World of Warcraft to be implemented not in a MMO genre. But I guess the only reason why I dislike the zoomy one-tap clear build (even if I play zoomy one-tap clear because the game incentivizes me to) in PoE 2, is mainly because I don't understand on why differentiate the two games. If in the end Path of Exile 2 will reach Path of Exile 1 power level and endgame design, then PoE 2 is just PoE 1 with added dodge roll and prettier graphic. And I assume that trying to develop both games at the same time will divide the company resources, and resulting in less quality content for both game, while not achieving anything in the end, because the 2nd is just an upgraded graphic version of the first, with added functionality to space bar to roll over some attacks from enemy. BUUUUUUUUUTTTTT That is just how somewhat my limited brain perceived regarding game as a product to be sold and to be enjoyed. In the end of the day, I'll keep playing either one if I enjoy it. Last edited by bewilder2#0356 on Jan 16, 2025, 5:27:59 PM
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" +1 |
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