I'm confused as to why people enjoy the moment to moment gameplay of this game

"

dkp#0523 wrote:

"Mobs don't kill me"

Tell me you've never played POE2 without telling me you've never played POE2.

Tell me you never had cloak of flame without telling me you never had cloak of flame xD

"

alhazred70#2994 wrote:

"

Vdk#6485 wrote:

When I was a child I wished to be a game designer but I'm happy that I didn't seeing how hard it is to satisfy all kinds of people.

Thats the thing you shouldn't really even try, just make a game with an artistic design you want to make and let people who dig it play and everyone else can bounce off.

Ofc your want your game to be successful enough to keep the game going and provide the devs with a good living. But the moment you start bastardizing your design goals to pander to too many different tates you end up with D4...

and honestly POE1 for that matter at least the clear speed meta years. Most of the "division" here is from people who want POE2 to be a clone of the design mistake quagmire that is POE1.

We have so many people around here who think game designers exist to make them miserable with nerfs and "chores", as if they would be the most happy if the game had a "I win" button that would instantly give you every item and 100 levels. Never once wondering why a game needs obstacles, weight or friction. Viewing those things as sadistic punishment instead of necessity for a game to even be a game.

without meaningful choices a game turns into pachinko.

+1




honestly, i think poe1 obviously the greatest arpg ever made, the thing is outrageously good. but, i think it did a lot to warp the perception of what an arpg should be in some really bad ways as well as good.

TL2 had maps but really path of exile invented endgame as a game. when poe launched D3 didnt have rifts and all the shit we got with RoS, D2 essentially had no endgame. PoE wrote the book on how to make a truly great arpg.


it also rotted peoples brains with idiot level lolcopter gameplay. people used to say things like "if you want easy game blah blah go play D3". but D3 was nowhere near as fast and screen nuke nonsense as poe was. however stupid you could make your game in d3 poe was always capable of another level.






i used to get so annoyed with the devs back in the day. i regret being so negative with them in the feedback forum because i really feel like at some point the permatoxic negative for its own sake crowd started to ruin this community.

but i used to complain a lot that they were not looking after the game, they were adding insane power creep that no one was even asking for and every time they did it they couldnt take it back. just recklessly throwing in so much broken shit the game became a joke and that in turn took players down a path its hard to come back from.

even i get a twinge at any sense of resistance cause im so used to just mowing down screens. and no that is not 'what arpgs should be', and it wasnt to anywhere near this extent before poe1.




i really think theres elements to poe2 that are too hard, too punishing. but a lot of it is just something we have to go through, some players are gonna cold turkey and learn to actually play the game again, some are going to get culled and sent back to playing idiot mode in poe1/D3, brains just too broken at this point to ever come back to actual gameplay. it is what it is, ggg created this problem by not keeping shit in check during the mid phase of poe1 and now this is the price to be paid. but it has to be paid because where we ended up was not a game any more, it was a stupid hamsterwheel of dopamine addiction dressed up in an action rpg cosplay.

"

Snorkle_uk#0761 wrote:

"

alhazred70#2994 wrote:

"

Vdk#6485 wrote:

When I was a child I wished to be a game designer but I'm happy that I didn't seeing how hard it is to satisfy all kinds of people.

Thats the thing you shouldn't really even try, just make a game with an artistic design you want to make and let people who dig it play and everyone else can bounce off.

Ofc your want your game to be successful enough to keep the game going and provide the devs with a good living. But the moment you start bastardizing your design goals to pander to too many different tates you end up with D4...

and honestly POE1 for that matter at least the clear speed meta years. Most of the "division" here is from people who want POE2 to be a clone of the design mistake quagmire that is POE1.

We have so many people around here who think game designers exist to make them miserable with nerfs and "chores", as if they would be the most happy if the game had a "I win" button that would instantly give you every item and 100 levels. Never once wondering why a game needs obstacles, weight or friction. Viewing those things as sadistic punishment instead of necessity for a game to even be a game.

without meaningful choices a game turns into pachinko.

+1




honestly, i think poe1 obviously the greatest arpg ever made, the thing is outrageously good. but, i think it did a lot to warp the perception of what an arpg should be in some really bad ways as well as good.

TL2 had maps but really path of exile invented endgame as a game. when poe launched D3 didnt have rifts and all the shit we got with RoS, D2 essentially had no endgame. PoE wrote the book on how to make a truly great arpg.


it also rotted peoples brains with idiot level lolcopter gameplay. people used to say things like "if you want easy game blah blah go play D3". but D3 was nowhere near as fast and screen nuke nonsense as poe was. however stupid you could make your game in d3 poe was always capable of another level.






i used to get so annoyed with the devs back in the day. i regret being so negative with them in the feedback forum because i really feel like at some point the permatoxic negative for its own sake crowd started to ruin this community.

but i used to complain a lot that they were not looking after the game, they were adding insane power creep that no one was even asking for and every time they did it they couldnt take it back. just recklessly throwing in so much broken shit the game became a joke and that in turn took players down a path its hard to come back from.

even i get a twinge at any sense of resistance cause im so used to just mowing down screens. and no that is not 'what arpgs should be', and it wasnt to anywhere near this extent before poe1.




i really think theres elements to poe2 that are too hard, too punishing. but a lot of it is just something we have to go through, some players are gonna cold turkey and learn to actually play the game again, some are going to get culled and sent back to playing idiot mode in poe1/D3, brains just too broken at this point to ever come back to actual gameplay. it is what it is, ggg created this problem by not keeping shit in check during the mid phase of poe1 and now this is the price to be paid. but it has to be paid because where we ended up was not a game any more, it was a stupid hamsterwheel of dopamine addiction dressed up in an action rpg cosplay.

I usually trim quotes down when i reply but this is a god damn good read and I agree whole heartedly.

I honestly, with no snark think that POE1 players who are malding about POE2 are just set into a mindset or expectation that they should be trivializing everything, because:

"I'm a god gamer and if a game doesn't bow to my will, its clearly because the dev's done fucked up".

I also think GGG knew this was going to happen (which is why they correctly forked POE1 and 2 from each other) and thats why there's a nice long couple months before they even talk about the next POE1 league.

To give the players who aren't a lost cause ample time to adapt and de-aclimate.
They literally need intervention to de-tox from POE1's dopamine mainlining. Like DIvers who've been deep for too long... some of them are getting the bends from having to actually engage their brains and game again.

"

Vdk#6485 wrote:

When I was a child I wished to be a game designer but I'm happy that I didn't seeing how hard it is to satisfy all kinds of people.

Yes once you sort your defense most parts of the game become quite easy. Which is why higher tier maps has a lot of negative effects on you and buffs on mobs which you said that you're ignoring some...

So game is actually easy if build your character and stay in your comfort zone.

Now get some monster attack speed, resistance penetration, critical hit chance, +projectile numbers etc. and try that map.

All difficulty is artificial in a way.

I'm not saying game is perfect. This is my first ever Poe game. However even the hardcore players say when maps juiced in certain ways anything has the possibility of one shooting you.

Also you can play mace character if you want a bit more challenge. It's not always required but even if the mobs are easy, you at least need to make sure you'll not trap yourself in some corner. Any area can become a death trap if certain mob types joins the fight.

make the game YOU want to make.

POE1 is the way it is because GGG had to bend backwards to keep its player base happy. it needed money.

POE2 now has the recognition and financial backing that they can afford players ragequitting poe2 as POE1 still is around.

if you have any dreams of making your own game. just go ahead and do it. theres many game engines available.

tho making a game and selling a game are very much intertwined, you still can make the game that YOU want.

"

PupTwilight#3259 wrote:

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DiabloImmoral#7632 wrote:

People like it because it's a new game not because it's good. I've tried out most of the archetypes in PoE 2 and they all felt worse than PoE 1 with the exception of monk "melee" that felt very enjoyable to play.

Monk was one of the boring classes to play. I have been enjoying sorc and Witch

Well Monk is a class and not an ascendancy. So you didn't like either of the ascendancies the monk has to offer? Or did you not even get that far?

So you made a lvl 10 monk and was not feeling it?

Mechanically shallow. Dodge roll is only useful against bosses who have one shot hits. Once you're in maps on danger comes from on death effects. Just Like PoE this sequel is dull but absorbing. The campaign is good because it offers something different to PoE. Outside the campaign, well, mainly the bosses, you're playing PoE. Not PoE2. Anyone who played Ruthless in PoE has already played PoE2.

Plays 120h. Finds the game boring.

It's fine if you don't care for the game. Every person is not going to like every game and that's ok.

The really weird part for me is trying to justify to other people why they shouldn't like the game. If you don't care for it or find it boring then just move on. The need to have your opinion validated by others says a lot.

"

dkp#0523 wrote:

"Mobs don't kill me"

Tell me you've never played POE2 without telling me you've never played POE2.

Frankly i had a rough time the first hours like everyone else but the game is not that hard once you learned the core mechanics and understood where's the good stuff ... i've actually build a Melee Mercenary from Level 1 to Level 56 without any investments whatsoever in defences = full glass canon , still completely playable . Ignore Armor and play Evasion with ES , prioritize items with Resistances on it over Regen , etc . As for white mobs they are a complete joke as long as you have invested in a couple of good skills with great AoE .

This is a game where good builds is about clearing the screen as fast as possible and occasionally roll away from trouble , you can't tank shit here and people trying to do so will keep struggling .

Ya know, I was pretty condescending towards the game in the initial post which I probably should've worded better, but it's kind of weird reading comments about how I must hate this game and should just stop playing it, and that my feedback is just invalid. I do like this game overall, the story is cool, the setting is great, the character building is immaculate, the classes are awesome and overall I had a great time playing it. Admittedly I don't have a ton of experience with arpg's and came into it looking at the game as if it were just an actiony twin stick shooter with a big excel spreadsheet character sheet attached to it, so maybe my expectation does differ from what others might want out of the game. I feel as if my feedback is still valid on how the moment to moment gameplay is laid out though.

Again my primary complaint is how the actual mechanical gameplay is designed, and how the difficulty is distributed in the game. it feels weird to me that the actual moveset of each individual mob and what they can/will do during combat generates such an astronomically small amount of threat to me as the player compared to the text below a rare monsters name or the affixes on a map. It feels unintuitive to me that a gigantic angry dude with two giant swords running at me is 1/50th as threatening as a tiny crab with a yellow outline that makes lightning explosions, and that I'm infinitely more worried about what modifiers are on my map or a silly little gauge on my ui in the sanctum than anything any of the mobs in that encounter will actually do in combat(besides zarokh, that guy is friggin cool.)

And yes, people can point and call me a moron at the mention of the words "artificial difficulty" but I think that is what a ton of the difficulty in this game is centralized around. The way I categorize it myself is the actual mechanical button pressing of maneuvering attacking and dodging in combat and mental decision making on what to do along with the intellectual decisions made during building/outside of combat are the fundamental difficulty of the game, and mechanics that do not fundamentally alter how the game functions but simply add a numerical layer of difficulty that just makes what you're already going to do harder is artificial difficulty. I would also like to say I DON'T THINK THIS IS INHERENTLY A BAD THING TO PUT IN A GAME. Every game with a lot of replayability has a level of it. But I think poe2 relies on such mechanics to an extreme degree to where those mechanics act as a substitute to the actual fundamental difficulty of the game.

Again i do actually like this game, and I admit I was kind of condescending in my original post. But I think these are very real and legitimate complaints to have about the game.