Why I find the "PoE 1 culture" concerning - perspective of a new franchise fan

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Serow21#8936 wrote:

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Nothv13#0740 wrote:

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Serow21#8936 wrote:

I'm New to poe , played a bit of poe 1 before but was disapointed by the lack of liberty and the fact that you had to copy builds to get good .

Poe2 is just awesome , there's good challenges . It's fun to craft. Boss and artistic direction is top notch. And i don't see why everyone's mad about the difficulty . Try to craft some gear , learn mechanics.

The amount of assistance people need nowadays is concerning . Then they cry and want nerf and bullshit patches . It's rare to have good game in this period of times.
Don't ruin it for everybody

I've seen all these machinics before. Most existsed in PoE1 already. The crafting is not crafting is is just rng drops with extra steps. PoE1 crafting is more crafting than this and people hated that. You'll also find taht in this game people will just copy builds too since the gameplay loop and goal is the exact same as PoE1. Hell you already see it at the max level with people zooming and screen clearing just like PoE1.

Why do people complain then lol ? And why can't they clear the content ?
I don't mind people copying build , if they find their fun . I'm just saying there's a million way to uprgrde your character and make everything easy/enjoyable.

Yet 70% of post are "nerf the difficulty" ... For me the need of some reaction time and small dodge mechanics is simply too challenging for some players... You don't get the instant reward dopamine rush like poe1

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Nothv13#0740 wrote:

Most can clear the content. The issue is that it is honestly just tedious. Both the pro difficulty side and anti-difficulty side lump tedium into difficulty. The start of the game should not have tedium. Early on, the difference between someone who gets drop and someone who doesn't is the former face tanks the content without issue. The later spends more time dodging than anything else making even mob encounters tedious.

The tedium will just become more of a turn off on full release and leagues start where endgame is the goal and the game takes on the same loop as PoE1.

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AintCare#6513 wrote:

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xXIISK47IIXx#6513 wrote:

Op has no idea what he's talking about lol.

he knows more about the game than the 'vets'

his observations on 'poe culture' are spot on. it's very easy to verify it as well, all you have to do is login to poe, go to global and ask a question. this is very saddening to see when truly new players are pushed to YT content creators and 'guides'.

i hope these concerns will be taken more seriously in poe2

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Nothv13#0740 wrote:

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AintCare#6513 wrote:

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xXIISK47IIXx#6513 wrote:

Op has no idea what he's talking about lol.

he knows more about the game than the 'vets'

his observations on 'poe culture' are spot on. it's very easy to verify it as well, all you have to do is login to poe, go to global and ask a question. this is very saddening to see when truly new players are pushed to YT content creators and 'guides'.

i hope these concerns will be taken more seriously in poe2

Lol he doesn't even understand that RNG mean not everyone will get the amount of loot he is claiming to get. He thinks the "crafting" in this is somehow different than just rng loot with extra steps. He doesn't even understand the gameplay loop that PoE2 will end up being (Leagues with focus on endgame, ie the exact same as PoE1). He doesn't know the current endgame and that it is everything he likely hates. He at most understands the campaign, but fails to look any further than the now when it comes to how it will actually play into the gameplay loop that PoE2 is going to end up doing.

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Fae_Lyth#6750 wrote:

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Nothv13#0740 wrote:

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Lol he doesn't even understand that RNG mean not everyone will get the amount of loot he is claiming to get. He thinks the "crafting" in this is somehow different than just rng loot with extra steps. He doesn't even understand the gameplay loop that PoE2 will end up being (Leagues with focus on endgame, ie the exact same as PoE1). He doesn't know the current endgame and that it is everything he likely hates. He at most understands the campaign, but fails to look any further than the now when it comes to how it will actually play into the gameplay loop that PoE2 is going to end up doing.

Both the complaints I am refering to and my post are about the campaign.
Stay on topic please, and don't assume what I hate or don't hate.
Communication is more pleasant without those things, or cheap gotcha attempts.

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Nothv13#0740 wrote:

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Fae_Lyth#6750 wrote:

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Nothv13#0740 wrote:

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Lol he doesn't even understand that RNG mean not everyone will get the amount of loot he is claiming to get. He thinks the "crafting" in this is somehow different than just rng loot with extra steps. He doesn't even understand the gameplay loop that PoE2 will end up being (Leagues with focus on endgame, ie the exact same as PoE1). He doesn't know the current endgame and that it is everything he likely hates. He at most understands the campaign, but fails to look any further than the now when it comes to how it will actually play into the gameplay loop that PoE2 is going to end up doing.

Both the complaints I am refering to and my post are about the campaign.
Stay on topic please, and don't assume what I hate or don't hate.
Communication is more pleasant without those things, or cheap gotcha attempts.

And I'm telling your your opinions on the campaign (keep it "tougher", less items, etc) do not fit well into the actual loop and endgame focus the game will have over repeated leagues.

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I think it's okay that a game expects you to read what it tells you, play decently well, use your mind, and actually use and engage with mechanics such offered by the game in order to succeed.

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Asghaad#3967 wrote:

its quite simple really, because you are new player that doesnt engage with the endgame content in PoE1 your expectations of the game are quite different to a regular that treats content you find "good" as nothing but timewaster barrier before getting to actual "good stuff" in the endgame

your approach is "fine" for the former while being utterly DISASTROUS for the latter

problem here is that the PoE formula is based on the latter - the whole success of the genre REQUIRES good endgame that can keep players playing for at least 1-1.5 half months in 3-4 moths between leagues schedule

just by looking at your account with your LvL86 necromancer in Settlers, 6 challenges and privated characters tells me

1. you never engaged in endgame yet, so you dont understand requirements placed on actual viable builds to do so

2. you got only "automatic completion" challenges showing you didnt even try to go for the endgame content

3. privated characters means you dont engage with external tools that most players use to fine tune builds - which explains the points 1 and 2, your "ill do it myself" character - even while using the easiest to "do it yourself" classes/ playstyles of minion necro - isnt viable enough to engage with content you obviously never had the chance to experience


so you are the player type that goes through a campaign, goes into early maps and quits before even completing the atlas - if you have fun doing that then all the power to you problem is the game cannot sustain itself on one week players like you, the core that kept this franchise alive for a decade is a player that goes BEYOND that and to do THAT you need optimized builds, good grasp on crafting and trading and drive to go for the endgame content


things you dont have / want to have and things you therefore dont understand the things you call "poe1 culture"

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Fae_Lyth#6750 wrote:

I've had several discussions on these forums where I disagreed with people on loot scarcity and campaign boss difficulty on several occasions.

I've been swimming in good stuff for the campaign consistently and on multiple characters, and I was wondering why others claim they don't.

I pick up all the items I find (white, blue, yellow), I disenchant all I can, I craft with blue orbs to fish for good affixes and then commit with regals, I craft or sell all the whites I find (loot monkeying has become even easier with the free infinite portal scrolls), I spend gold on item gamba at Finn / Alva.

When I enter a boss fight, I might die once or twice to a mechanic, and then experiment and try to figure it out.
When it clicks, it's so satisfying, and I don't die to it anymore. I thought others were the same.

I've helped others on the forums, and I've also released a build guide.
And then it clicked for me.

In this guides, I have a detailed explanation for gear, desirable affixes, gems, support gems, passive tree path.
Yet, I am consistently asked the exact same things that are answered in my post already, or ask me if "X is useful for build", when used skills in the build say they don't X. I noticed that a lot of people simply don't read, even when you literally give them step by step instructions, or don't bother to understand what they're doing and lack even the slightest bit of inquisitiveness.

I assume this also applies to many of the complaints.
That people just don't read tooltips or ingame descriptions, or bother to understand or engage with game mechanics such as disenchanting or crafting, that people's response to dying to a boss attack isn't "What happened / what can I do differently".

I personally blame the "PoE 1 culture" for this.

I enter games blind, because the beauty in playing games is coming up with stuff on my own, and figuring out stuff on my own.
As a new fan to the franchise, to me it looks like it has become the norm in PoE 1 to not bother to understand anything and just copy someone elses step by step instructions and execute them.
In fact, when I was livestreaming my PoE 1 first playthrough, my chat was full of people desperate to convince me that I NEED to copy a build to succeed, that it's IMPOSSIBLE to come up with something on your own, that you are SUPPOSED to just mindlessly execute someone elses step by steps.
My chat was also full of people trying to "help" me with the most obvious things possible (literally explaining tooltips that I was reading at that moment).
And global chat also reflects that whenever someone mentions they're new to the game.

It feels infantilising.

I find this deeply concerning.

And even more concerning is that I am seeing this mindset migrate over to PoE 2, and we could see live that the moment people were left to come up with things on their own for 3 days until builds were being posted, the forums were on fire about how unplayably difficult the campaign is.

To me personally it's a mindset I can't comprehend or put myself into, because I instinctively try to understand what's going on, collect and disenchant everything "just in case", experiment, etc.

Why this post?

Because I don't think that's the mindset GGG should change the game to please.
I think it's okay that a game expects you to read what it tells you, play decently well, use your mind, and actually use and engage with mechanics such offered by the game in order to succeed.
The quadrupling of certain drops is concerning to me, I'm already swimming in loot during the campaign as is.