Why I find the "PoE 1 culture" concerning - perspective of a new franchise fan
I've had several discussions on these forums where I disagreed with people on loot scarcity and campaign boss difficulty on several occasions.
I've been swimming in good stuff for the campaign consistently and on multiple characters, and I was wondering why others claim they don't.
I pick up all the items I find (white, blue, yellow), I disenchant all I can, I craft with blue orbs to fish for good affixes and then commit with regals, I craft or sell all the whites I find (loot monkeying has become even easier with the free infinite portal scrolls), I spend gold on item gamba at Finn / Alva.
When I enter a boss fight, I might die once or twice to a mechanic, and then experiment and try to figure it out.
When it clicks, it's so satisfying, and I don't die to it anymore. I thought others were the same.
I've helped others on the forums, and I've also released a build guide.
And then it clicked for me.
In this guides, I have a detailed explanation for gear, desirable affixes, gems, support gems, passive tree path.
Yet, I am consistently asked the exact same things that are answered in my post already, or ask me if "X is useful for build", when used skills in the build say they don't X. I noticed that a lot of people simply don't read , even when you literally give them step by step instructions, or don't bother to understand what they're doing and lack even the slightest bit of inquisitiveness.
I assume this also applies to many of the complaints.
That people just don't read tooltips or ingame descriptions, or bother to understand or engage with game mechanics such as disenchanting or crafting, that people's response to dying to a boss attack isn't "What happened / what can I do differently".
I personally blame the "PoE 1 culture" for this.
I enter games blind, because the beauty in playing games is coming up with stuff on my own, and figuring out stuff on my own.
As a new fan to the franchise, to me it looks like it has become the norm in PoE 1 to not bother to understand anything and just copy someone elses step by step instructions and execute them.
In fact, when I was livestreaming my PoE 1 first playthrough, my chat was full of people desperate to convince me that I NEED to copy a build to succeed, that it's IMPOSSIBLE to come up with something on your own, that you are SUPPOSED to just mindlessly execute someone elses step by steps.
My chat was also full of people trying to "help" me with the most obvious things possible (literally explaining tooltips that I was reading at that moment).
And global chat also reflects that whenever someone mentions they're new to the game.
It feels infantilising.
I find this deeply concerning.
And even more concerning is that I am seeing this mindset migrate over to PoE 2, and we could see live that the moment people were left to come up with things on their own for 3 days until builds were being posted, the forums were on fire about how unplayably difficult the campaign is.
To me personally it's a mindset I can't comprehend or put myself into, because I instinctively try to understand what's going on, collect and disenchant everything "just in case", experiment, etc.
Why this post?
Because I don't think that's the mindset GGG should change the game to please.
I think it's okay that a game expects you to read what it tells you, play decently well, use your mind, and actually use and engage with mechanics such offered by the game in order to succeed.
The quadrupling of certain drops is concerning to me, I'm already swimming in loot during the campaign as is.
Last edited by Fae_Lyth#6750 on Dec 14, 2024, 1:13:20 AM
I'm New to poe , played a bit of poe 1 before but was disapointed by the lack of liberty and the fact that you had to copy builds to get good .
Poe2 is just awesome , there's good challenges . It's fun to craft. Boss and artistic direction is top notch. And i don't see why everyone's mad about the difficulty . Try to craft some gear , learn mechanics.
The amount of assistance people need nowadays is concerning . Then they cry and want nerf and bullshit patches . It's rare to have good game in this period of times.
Don't ruin it for everybody
I've had several discussions on these forums where I disagreed with people on loot scarcity and campaign boss difficulty on several occasions.
I've been swimming in good stuff for the campaign consistently and on multiple characters, and I was wondering why others claim they don't.
I pick up all the items I find (white, blue, yellow), I disenchant all I can, I craft with blue orbs to fish for good affixes and then commit with regals, I craft or sell all the whites I find (loot monkeying has become even easier with the free infinite portal scrolls), I spend gold on item gamba at Finn / Alva.
When I enter a boss fight, I might die once or twice to a mechanic, and then experiment and try to figure it out.
When it clicks, it's so satisfying, and I don't die to it anymore. I thought others were the same.
I've helped others on the forums, and I've also released a build guide.
And then it clicked for me.
In this guides, I have a detailed explanation for gear, desirable affixes, gems, support gems, passive tree path.
Yet, I am consistently asked the exact same things that are answered in my post already, or ask me if "X is useful for build", when used skills in the build say they don't X. I noticed that a lot of people simply don't read, even when you literally give them step by step instructions, or don't bother to understand what they're doing and lack even the slightest bit of inquisitiveness.
I assume this also applies to many of the complaints.
That people just don't read tooltips or ingame descriptions, or bother to understand or engage with game mechanics such as disenchanting or crafting, that people's response to dying to a boss attack isn't "What happened / what can I do differently".
I personally blame the "PoE 1 culture" for this.
I enter games blind, because the beauty in playing games is coming up with stuff on my own, and figuring out stuff on my own.
As a new fan to the franchise, to me it looks like it has become the norm in PoE 1 to not bother to understand anything and just copy someone elses step by step instructions and execute them.
In fact, when I was livestreaming my PoE 1 first playthrough, my chat was full of people desperate to convince me that I NEED to copy a build to succeed, that it's IMPOSSIBLE to come up with something on your own, that you are SUPPOSED to just mindlessly execute someone elses step by steps.
My chat was also full of people trying to "help" me with the most obvious things possible (literally explaining tooltips that I was reading at that moment).
And global chat also reflects that whenever someone mentions they're new to the game.
I find this deeply concerning.
And even more concerning is that I am seeing this mindset migrate over to PoE 2, and we could see live that the moment people were left to come up with things on their own for 3 days until builds were being posted, the forums were on fire about how unplayably difficult the campaign is.
To me personally it's a mindset I can't comprehend or put myself into, because I instinctively try to understand what's going on, collect and disenchant everything "just in case", experiment, etc.
Why this post?
Because I don't think that's the mindset GGG should change the game to please.
I think it's okay that a game expects you to read what it tells you, play decently well, use your mind, and actually use and engage with mechanics such offered by the game in order to succeed.
The quadrupling of certain drops is concerning to me, I'm already swimming in loot during the campaign as is.
its quite simple really, because you are new player that doesnt engage with the endgame content in PoE1 your expectations of the game are quite different to a regular that treats content you find "good" as nothing but timewaster barrier before getting to actual "good stuff" in the endgame
your approach is "fine" for the former while being utterly DISASTROUS for the latter
problem here is that the PoE formula is based on the latter - the whole success of the genre REQUIRES good endgame that can keep players playing for at least 1-1.5 half months in 3-4 moths between leagues schedule
just by looking at your account with your LvL86 necromancer in Settlers, 6 challenges and privated characters tells me
1. you never engaged in endgame yet, so you dont understand requirements placed on actual viable builds to do so
2. you got only "automatic completion" challenges showing you didnt even try to go for the endgame content
3. privated characters means you dont engage with external tools that most players use to fine tune builds - which explains the points 1 and 2, your "ill do it myself" character - even while using the easiest to "do it yourself" classes/ playstyles of minion necro - isnt viable enough to engage with content you obviously never had the chance to experience
so you are the player type that goes through a campaign, goes into early maps and quits before even completing the atlas - if you have fun doing that then all the power to you problem is the game cannot sustain itself on one week players like you, the core that kept this franchise alive for a decade is a player that goes BEYOND that and to do THAT you need optimized builds, good grasp on crafting and trading and drive to go for the endgame content
things you dont have / want to have and things you therefore dont understand the things you call "poe1 culture"
Most people following a meta instead of creating their own builds, this is not unique to PoE 1
As someone who plays a lot of card collectable games, I can tell you that ^^
You will mostly just see the same couple of decks in ranked PvP over and over
So if anything you are addressing "gaming culture"
I've had several discussions on these forums where I disagreed with people on loot scarcity and campaign boss difficulty on several occasions.
I've been swimming in good stuff for the campaign consistently and on multiple characters, and I was wondering why others claim they don't.
I pick up all the items I find (white, blue, yellow), I disenchant all I can, I craft with blue orbs to fish for good affixes and then commit with regals, I craft or sell all the whites I find (loot monkeying has become even easier with the free infinite portal scrolls), I spend gold on item gamba at Finn / Alva.
When I enter a boss fight, I might die once or twice to a mechanic, and then experiment and try to figure it out.
When it clicks, it's so satisfying, and I don't die to it anymore. I thought others were the same.
I've helped others on the forums, and I've also released a build guide.
And then it clicked for me.
In this guides, I have a detailed explanation for gear, desirable affixes, gems, support gems, passive tree path.
Yet, I am consistently asked the exact same things that are answered in my post already, or ask me if "X is useful for build", when used skills in the build say they don't X. I noticed that a lot of people simply don't read, even when you literally give them step by step instructions, or don't bother to understand what they're doing and lack even the slightest bit of inquisitiveness.
I assume this also applies to many of the complaints.
That people just don't read tooltips or ingame descriptions, or bother to understand or engage with game mechanics such as disenchanting or crafting, that people's response to dying to a boss attack isn't "What happened / what can I do differently".
I personally blame the "PoE 1 culture" for this.
I enter games blind, because the beauty in playing games is coming up with stuff on my own, and figuring out stuff on my own.
As a new fan to the franchise, to me it looks like it has become the norm in PoE 1 to not bother to understand anything and just copy someone elses step by step instructions and execute them.
In fact, when I was livestreaming my PoE 1 first playthrough, my chat was full of people desperate to convince me that I NEED to copy a build to succeed, that it's IMPOSSIBLE to come up with something on your own, that you are SUPPOSED to just mindlessly execute someone elses step by steps.
My chat was also full of people trying to "help" me with the most obvious things possible (literally explaining tooltips that I was reading at that moment).
And global chat also reflects that whenever someone mentions they're new to the game.
I find this deeply concerning.
And even more concerning is that I am seeing this mindset migrate over to PoE 2, and we could see live that the moment people were left to come up with things on their own for 3 days until builds were being posted, the forums were on fire about how unplayably difficult the campaign is.
To me personally it's a mindset I can't comprehend or put myself into, because I instinctively try to understand what's going on, collect and disenchant everything "just in case", experiment, etc.
Why this post?
Because I don't think that's the mindset GGG should change the game to please.
I think it's okay that a game expects you to read what it tells you, play decently well, use your mind, and actually use and engage with mechanics such offered by the game in order to succeed.
The quadrupling of certain drops is concerning to me, I'm already swimming in loot during the campaign as is.
Spoiler
its quite simple really, because you are new player that doesnt engage with the endgame content in PoE1 your expectations of the game are quite different to a regular that treats content you find "good" as nothing but timewaster barrier before getting to actual "good stuff" in the endgame
your approach is "fine" for the former while being utterly DISASTROUS for the latter
problem here is that the PoE formula is based on the latter - the whole success of the genre REQUIRES good endgame that can keep players playing for at least 1-1.5 half months in 3-4 moths between leagues schedule
just by looking at your account with your LvL86 necromancer in Settlers, 6 challenges and privated characters tells me
1. you never engaged in endgame yet, so you dont understand requirements placed on actual viable builds to do so
2. you got only "automatic completion" challenges showing you didnt even try to go for the endgame content
3. privated characters means you dont engage with external tools that most players use to fine tune builds - which explains the points 1 and 2, your "ill do it myself" character - even while using the easiest to "do it yourself" classes/ playstyles of minion necro - isnt viable enough to engage with content you obviously never had the chance to experience
so you are the player type that goes through a campaign, goes into early maps and quits before even completing the atlas - if you have fun doing that then all the power to you problem is the game cannot sustain itself on one week players like you, the core that kept this franchise alive for a decade is a player that goes BEYOND that and to do THAT you need optimized builds, good grasp on crafting and trading and drive to go for the endgame content
things you dont have / want to have and things you therefore dont understand the things you call "poe1 culture"
While (some of) your points are correct, they're also off topic.
"You haven't even done T17 in PoE1" seems like just a cheap and off-topic gotcha attempt when the topic at hand is that people are too reliant on handholding, and don't even read the things that are explained to them.
Last edited by Fae_Lyth#6750 on Dec 13, 2024, 11:05:07 PM
I've had several discussions on these forums where I disagreed with people on loot scarcity and campaign boss difficulty on several occasions.
I've been swimming in good stuff for the campaign consistently and on multiple characters, and I was wondering why others claim they don't.
I pick up all the items I find (white, blue, yellow), I disenchant all I can, I craft with blue orbs to fish for good affixes and then commit with regals, I craft or sell all the whites I find (loot monkeying has become even easier with the free infinite portal scrolls), I spend gold on item gamba at Finn / Alva.
When I enter a boss fight, I might die once or twice to a mechanic, and then experiment and try to figure it out.
When it clicks, it's so satisfying, and I don't die to it anymore. I thought others were the same.
I've helped others on the forums, and I've also released a build guide.
And then it clicked for me.
In this guides, I have a detailed explanation for gear, desirable affixes, gems, support gems, passive tree path.
Yet, I am consistently asked the exact same things that are answered in my post already, or ask me if "X is useful for build", when used skills in the build say they don't X. I noticed that a lot of people simply don't read, even when you literally give them step by step instructions, or don't bother to understand what they're doing and lack even the slightest bit of inquisitiveness.
I assume this also applies to many of the complaints.
That people just don't read tooltips or ingame descriptions, or bother to understand or engage with game mechanics such as disenchanting or crafting, that people's response to dying to a boss attack isn't "What happened / what can I do differently".
I personally blame the "PoE 1 culture" for this.
I enter games blind, because the beauty in playing games is coming up with stuff on my own, and figuring out stuff on my own.
As a new fan to the franchise, to me it looks like it has become the norm in PoE 1 to not bother to understand anything and just copy someone elses step by step instructions and execute them.
In fact, when I was livestreaming my PoE 1 first playthrough, my chat was full of people desperate to convince me that I NEED to copy a build to succeed, that it's IMPOSSIBLE to come up with something on your own, that you are SUPPOSED to just mindlessly execute someone elses step by steps.
My chat was also full of people trying to "help" me with the most obvious things possible (literally explaining tooltips that I was reading at that moment).
And global chat also reflects that whenever someone mentions they're new to the game.
I find this deeply concerning.
And even more concerning is that I am seeing this mindset migrate over to PoE 2, and we could see live that the moment people were left to come up with things on their own for 3 days until builds were being posted, the forums were on fire about how unplayably difficult the campaign is.
To me personally it's a mindset I can't comprehend or put myself into, because I instinctively try to understand what's going on, collect and disenchant everything "just in case", experiment, etc.
Why this post?
Because I don't think that's the mindset GGG should change the game to please.
I think it's okay that a game expects you to read what it tells you, play decently well, use your mind, and actually use and engage with mechanics such offered by the game in order to succeed.
The quadrupling of certain drops is concerning to me, I'm already swimming in loot during the campaign as is.
its quite simple really, because you are new player that doesnt engage with the endgame content in PoE1 your expectations of the game are quite different to a regular that treats content you find "good" as nothing but timewaster barrier before getting to actual "good stuff" in the endgame
your approach is "fine" for the former while being utterly DISASTROUS for the latter
problem here is that the PoE formula is based on the latter - the whole success of the genre REQUIRES good endgame that can keep players playing for at least 1-1.5 half months in 3-4 moths between leagues schedule
just by looking at your account with your LvL86 necromancer in Settlers, 6 challenges and privated characters tells me
1. you never engaged in endgame yet, so you dont understand requirements placed on actual viable builds to do so
2. you got only "automatic completion" challenges showing you didnt even try to go for the endgame content
3. privated characters means you dont engage with external tools that most players use to fine tune builds - which explains the points 1 and 2, your "ill do it myself" character - even while using the easiest to "do it yourself" classes/ playstyles of minion necro - isnt viable enough to engage with content you obviously never had the chance to experience
so you are the player type that goes through a campaign, goes into early maps and quits before even completing the atlas - if you have fun doing that then all the power to you problem is the game cannot sustain itself on one week players like you, the core that kept this franchise alive for a decade is a player that goes BEYOND that and to do THAT you need optimized builds, good grasp on crafting and trading and drive to go for the endgame content
things you dont have / want to have and things you therefore dont understand the things you call "poe1 culture"
So what is the "goodstuff" you're talking about ? Farming for the top 10 build for your class that you found on a top build website into full clearing a map in 30 sec in zoom mode ?
He's not even arguing with content for the most part but the dumb statemement that the game is too hard (confirmed by a lot of poe1 veteran) if you claim to be a endgame farmer and an optimizer who goes "beyond" how come you can't theory craft some basic gear to clear simple content on poe2 ?
Since you have so much achievement on poe1 and judge people on their previous expérience how can a new player outperform you in poe2 ?
Try to adapt a bit , it would be lame to just have poe1 bis with New Map/mobs .
I'm New to poe , played a bit of poe 1 before but was disapointed by the lack of liberty and the fact that you had to copy builds to get good .
Poe2 is just awesome , there's good challenges . It's fun to craft. Boss and artistic direction is top notch. And i don't see why everyone's mad about the difficulty . Try to craft some gear , learn mechanics.
The amount of assistance people need nowadays is concerning . Then they cry and want nerf and bullshit patches . It's rare to have good game in this period of times.
Don't ruin it for everybody
I've seen all these machinics before. Most existsed in PoE1 already. The crafting is not crafting is is just rng drops with extra steps. PoE1 crafting is more crafting than this and people hated that. You'll also find taht in this game people will just copy builds too since the gameplay loop and goal is the exact same as PoE1. Hell you already see it at the max level with people zooming and screen clearing just like PoE1.
I'm New to poe , played a bit of poe 1 before but was disapointed by the lack of liberty and the fact that you had to copy builds to get good .
Poe2 is just awesome , there's good challenges . It's fun to craft. Boss and artistic direction is top notch. And i don't see why everyone's mad about the difficulty . Try to craft some gear , learn mechanics.
The amount of assistance people need nowadays is concerning . Then they cry and want nerf and bullshit patches . It's rare to have good game in this period of times.
Don't ruin it for everybody
I've seen all these machinics before. Most existsed in PoE1 already. The crafting is not crafting is is just rng drops with extra steps. PoE1 crafting is more crafting than this and people hated that. You'll also find taht in this game people will just copy builds too since the gameplay loop and goal is the exact same as PoE1. Hell you already see it at the max level with people zooming and screen clearing just like PoE1.
Why do people complain then lol ? And why can't they clear the content ?
I don't mind people copying build , if they find their fun . I'm just saying there's a million way to uprgrde your character and make everything easy/enjoyable.
Yet 70% of post are "nerf the difficulty" ... For me the need of some reaction time and small dodge mechanics is simply too challenging for some players... You don't get the instant reward dopamine rush like poe1
I agree completely. As someone who spent a LOT of time in PoE, I don’t want PoE2 to be a clone of PoE. I wanted something fresh, new, and more difficult in gameplay. I really am lovin PoE2 the way that it is. I go into a boss fight now and watch the tells carefully and then see what they do while dodge rolling away. You can easily pickup the mechanics of a boss fight this way usually without dying (though some bosses have to be tweaked because their tells are nearly impossible to spot).
Some things do need to change though. We need a skill for each class that gives mobility… running around on these larger maps is too slow. The honor ascendancy dungeon needs to be removed or heavily tweaked. Movement might need to be upped a bit across the board.
Nevertheless: I am on the side of “don’t make PoE2 a PoE clone ffs”
