Loot isn't rewarding

One of GGGs primary goals in Path of Exile 2, is to make the loot system feel rewarding. Unlike in Path of Exile, where you were showered in loot that you then had to wade through all the crap to find anything decent.

This was due to the shear number of modifiers on any given piece of equipment, that theoretically could be useful for some builds, but was generally useless of most builds, or a modifier that you always needed for every build, thus making the item useless if it didn't have it.

Which is why I am frankly baffled that GGG decided to more or less copy that exact system, warts and all, for Path of Exile 2. You still have to wade through crap you don't need, but now slower.


There have been some notable changes for the better. Gem slots are gone, so that's one variable that you no long have to account for. And weapons are now much more specific, and thus only roll modifiers that are relevant, due to the changes in the skill gem system. Which in turn makes rolling for a decent weapon, somewhat easier to do.

The problem is everything else.
Armor and accessories haven't really changed whatsoever. And thus have all the same problems they did in Path of Exile.


Here's an example: Boots
What is the most desired modifier on boots? I don't even have to tell you, you all knew it the instant I said 'boots'.
It's Movement Speed.

With the changes to the general speed of the game, and increased need for positioning and avoidance, and the lack of movement speed on the passive tree, movement speed has gone from important to essential. If you didn't roll boots with movement speed, why even bother putting them on? Their trash.
And thus, now 95% of all boots you'll ever pick up have now been renders useless. All because of one stupid modifier. If this became an implicit on all boots instead, the problem would be solved.

Another example is Intelligence, Strength and Dexterity modifiers. Due to the changes to attributes, they are far, far less useful then they were. And generally not something worth stacking. All they essentially give you is a small amount of Mana, Health, or Accuracy. All of which are already covered better by other modifiers.
Given how easy it is to gain and change these on the passive tree, there really is little reason to have them outside of your amulet. They've essentially become dead weight.

The game is made worse because of certain modifiers on gear. They waste time, because you always need them, or must avoid them like the plague.


In order to make the loot of Path of Exile 2 feel better, you need less bad modifiers that waste your time, and more modifiers that are clearly build defining.

For example: Gloves
Added elemental damage on attacks. Great for martial characters, useless for casters.
Or Helmets. +1 to Minion skill level. Perfect for minion builds, useless for everyone else.

When you get these kinds of modifiers, your reaction should be either: This is great for my build/this is great for another build.


I think that GGG need to really start ripping into the guts of this modifier system, and throwing out the stuff that is really just taking up space, and look to including new, build defining modifiers.

Because if not, it's just Path of Exile loot all over again. But slower.

I think their idea was to increase the currency drops so you could make your own gear, but as of today the loot seems busted again and the currency isnt dropping.

Yeah, currency is still kinda busted. But even if it wasn't, it wouldn't fix the underlying issues that cause most loot to be useless.

Until they do, it's a band-aid solution.

May I ask what level did you get too? Because hitting up maps and dropping a T3 rare felt pretty good so far.
Same with the whole progression, I was constantly looking out for the base items I needed and nearly all the time I could find upgrades. Some straight up good stuff, others made better by slapping a currency item on it.

You offer a lot of criticism... actually not even that, you criticize a lot, but not a lot of constructive input. The way your post reads is that you want 1 stat on the items only. A stat called BETTERER, with a nice big green arrow pointing up or a red arrow pointing down. That way it would be great for all builds, you don't have to think. Is betterer green? Then slap it on your build. If its red, then go on the forums and complain that red downwards pointing arrows are still dropping, and they should be removed from the game as only items that improve your build should be able to drop.

I wonder why is it so hard to understand that ARPGs thrive on build variety. And with build variety come stats. What one build requires, others wont. If a ring with really high accuracy drops, will a ranger be happy? Most likely no, they get it from dex, as you say. What about a cast on crit build who spends most their attributes on int... well for them its a godsent.

tl:dr
Don't get too upset about balance you don't understand even if you mean well.

"

deathspenalty#0833 wrote:

May I ask what level did you get too? Because hitting up maps and dropping a T3 rare felt pretty good so far.
Same with the whole progression, I was constantly looking out for the base items I needed and nearly all the time I could find upgrades. Some straight up good stuff, others made better by slapping a currency item on it.

You offer a lot of criticism... actually not even that, you criticize a lot, but not a lot of constructive input. The way your post reads is that you want 1 stat on the items only. A stat called BETTERER, with a nice big green arrow pointing up or a red arrow pointing down. That way it would be great for all builds, you don't have to think. Is betterer green? Then slap it on your build. If its red, then go on the forums and complain that red downwards pointing arrows are still dropping, and they should be removed from the game as only items that improve your build should be able to drop.

I wonder why is it so hard to understand that ARPGs thrive on build variety. And with build variety come stats. What one build requires, others wont. If a ring with really high accuracy drops, will a ranger be happy? Most likely no, they get it from dex, as you say. What about a cast on crit build who spends most their attributes on int... well for them its a godsent.

tl:dr
Don't get too upset about balance you don't understand even if you mean well.

What has that got to do with the price of fish?

It doesn't matter what the build is or what level it is, I'm talking game design. My point is that GGG is using the same game design elements that they used in Path of Exile, which directly lead to its loot problems.

If they want to achieve different results, they aren't going to do it by repeating the design sins of the past.

"

YohSL#2995 wrote:

What has that got to do with the price of fish?

It doesn't matter what the build is or what level it is, I'm talking game design. My point is that GGG is using the same game design elements that they used in Path of Exile, which directly lead to its loot problems.

If they want to achieve different results, they aren't going to do it by repeating the design sins of the past.

See, if you don't understand it, don't get too upset about it.
Level/progress absolutely matters. The same items, nor the same quantity (nor quality) of items can not drop for low level characters as it drops for high level optimized characters. You don't understand the design aspect of having a bad affix, and are vehemently against it... even if its part of the design and the reason why the gearing in PoE works at all.
They definitely are repeating sins of the past, but you did not find those issues, you went for the one thing that works and tried twisting it into a mistake.
You are blanket complaining about a system that might need balance fixes, but where? Is it low levels, is it high levels, are you not getting access to enough power mid campaign, is the problem that you are playing an unoptimized build. In the latter case the problem is not the itemization, it might be that its not clear enough what a player has to improve.
You are just taking something that frustrated you, and painting that frustration over multiple systems ignoring how they work with each other, or how game design works at all.

"

deathspenalty#0833 wrote:

See, if you don't understand it, don't get too upset about it.
Level/progress absolutely matters. The same items, nor the same quantity (nor quality) of items can not drop for low level characters as it drops for high level optimized characters. You don't understand the design aspect of having a bad affix, and are vehemently against it... even if its part of the design and the reason why the gearing in PoE works at all.
They definitely are repeating sins of the past, but you did not find those issues, you went for the one thing that works and tried twisting it into a mistake.
You are blanket complaining about a system that might need balance fixes, but where? Is it low levels, is it high levels, are you not getting access to enough power mid campaign, is the problem that you are playing an unoptimized build. In the latter case the problem is not the itemization, it might be that its not clear enough what a player has to improve.
You are just taking something that frustrated you, and painting that frustration over multiple systems ignoring how they work with each other, or how game design works at all.

A: I'm not upset about it. I see a game design issue, and I am calling it out.
B: Even if I were upset, doesn't make my argument any less valid.
C: The problem with repeating the sings of the past, has nothing to do with whether or not people like it or not. It has everything to do with it going against their own stated design goals.

I havent had an upgrade on my character since my level 10 crossbow i found in act 1 probably 3 zones before the end act boss. They said they have buffed drops but i am still wearing everything i had from act 1 with no upgrades found in act 2 and i am almost at act 2 boss.

I do however think we are too used to crafting being too easy. But yeah, drops are bad, most the time I am not even getting a single rare item off a boss, and gold prices to items via vendors are way off if you ask me.

Im also curious why they seemingly decided to get rid of unless im not far enough in the game to find whatever currency does similar. This is a big reason resistances has been a pain in the ass as well. Alterations are such a key currency crafting material for early game.

While i also understand exalts drop more often, what good does that do me exactly if rares dont drop and i cant even craft magic items myself ? Well see how it ends up being adjusted/plays out but early game is definitely a complete slog due to this.

"

Tin_Foil_Hat#0111 wrote:

I havent had an upgrade on my character since my level 10 crossbow i found in act 1 probably 3 zones before the end act boss. They said they have buffed drops but i am still wearing everything i had from act 1 with no upgrades found in act 2 and i am almost at act 2 boss.

I do however think we are too used to crafting being too easy. But yeah, drops are bad, most the time I am not even getting a single rare item off a boss, and gold prices to items via vendors are way off if you ask me.

Im also curious why they seemingly decided to get rid of

unless im not far enough in the game to find whatever currency does similar. This is a big reason resistances has been a pain in the ass as well. Alterations are such a key currency crafting material for early game.

While i also understand exalts drop more often, what good does that do me exactly if rares dont drop and i cant even craft magic items myself ? Well see how it ends up being adjusted/plays out but early game is definitely a complete slog due to this.

Im level 31 using a level 11 staff with my Monk because nothing else has dropped and I'm getting like one or two rares an hour to disenchant for the regal orb. I'd be there days for the chance to modify each part of my build and then there's no guarantee that any of it will be better...

The currency drop rate needs a massive buff.

Alterations need to make a comeback. The problem I've seen across several chars is not really about the power, but the amount of dead items you make rolling an item with currencies and it rolls a horrid modifier on it.

Stuck using a level 11 staff on my monk till 40 because I couldn't roll anything better, and the vendor wouldn't offer me anything remotely close to my current staff. Resistances on gear was not happening no matter what i tried.

Finally got boots with movement speed on them, but nothing else useful on those boots and not getting enough currency is hurting. Having to get sockets on gear to fix res? Thats doable but entirely RNG based on getting gear with sockets to drop. I received none through act 1-2, and finally started seeing some at the end of A3. At this point, my res is already crap, and I can't really fix around it because nothing is dropping and vendors arent helping at all.

Spend currencies on gloves? oh fun, +2 life regen. +14 health. Find another pair. +28 health / +14% increased evasion. Onto the next. +4% cold resistance! +5 dex. Great. Another pair to find again. Found a yellow! +5 dex, +10 intelligence, +% Evasion, +hp. Thanks game.

Losing 10% res every act I get, but they need to really need to make some fundamental changes to loot for early game and even mid game to balance out that -10% res.

Especially with how much vendor watching you are forced to do in this current state.

Every level, check a vendor, hope it has an upgrade and that you can afford it, even if its just hoping you can get something to work.

In general, we need less garbage modifiers that we can roll on items if we aren't going to get alterations to atleast help in the early stages.

Struggling on through cruel, I dropped out due to wading through too much slog and getting drowned in the process getting into act 5.