Guess we were debating on 2 separate channels now lol
The TLDR of the debate is:
I stand corrected about Energy Shield.
I'll swap out my SRS + Arsonist + Hound setup for this build's and compare them.
I still think Unearth past Act 2, Bonestorm, Enfeeble, Mages are obsolete.
I still think Pain Offering should get Elemental Army + Persistence, and FLammability should get Heightened + Ritualistic Curse.
I just cross-referenced with other builds, just out of curiosity.
It seems that Ghazzy is running
his Hound with Exposure, Strip Away, Magnified, debuffs,
his Warriors with Meat Shield + debuffs,
his SRS with Feeding Frenzy, Fire Mastery, Minion Mastery, Elemental Focus, Primal Armament, and
his Arsonists with Scattershot, Martial Tempo, Fire Infusion, Immolate, Fire Pen.
It's very close to what I have, but still has some differences.
I'll check out that setup as well.
EDIT: It seems like Ghazzy is also thinking the same thing about Energy Shield that I did lol
Unearth does become somewhat obsolete after flammability but this guide is for a minion army setup which they create. They do help against very large groups of enemies still and create minions that can tank enemies.
Enfeeble is still useful for bosses to reduce their damage in act 1 and act 2 until you get Flammability. Flammability ofc replaces enfeeble.
Bonestorm still has decent damage until you get flammability after that it is useless yes.
One mage is worth it over one arsonist but if it takes you to drop two arsonists for a mage it is not worth it. I have already pointed this out in the guide.
If you get 20-35% shock effect on a boss it is still better than having one extra arsonist.
Pain offerings will die no matter how tanky you make them in high damage situations.
Having increased duration and elemental army on it is not worth it.
Flammability should have Heightened but definitively not Ritualistic curse.
The slower a curse activates the slower you deal more damage.
If you want a larger area size start using spell cascade for flammability.
It is by far the best increase on the area coverage for a curse.
Primal Armaments does not work on minions if you look at the tool-tip when adding the gem, that is a dead slot otherwise it would have been a good gem to use.
Last edited by Hoffen#2482 on Dec 15, 2024, 5:54:54 PM
Woah ok, I am glad that my request to Fae started this discussion and analysis - I might have got a little more than I expected!
First of all thank you to both posters for going a lot more in depth into their version of the build. I hope the discussion goes on, and also that it remains civil.
I will refrain from commenting on everything I wanted, since the two guide authors talk directly to each other, (and provide tons of information for us in doing so). I will just say that I agree with lots of the points Fae makes. However I am not in the endgame yet, and not everything that works in the campaign will work in maps. And a lot of my reasoning is based on my experience with PoE 1 mechanics, which might not always translate to PoE 2. It seems that vanilla ES is the way to go, after all.
At the moment I am mixing and matching a little. I use Hoff's support setup, but I did trade one of my Arsonists for two Clerics. The uptime feels better; if there is any difference in DPS, I haven't noticed it yet. But I am at the point where the builds start to diverge more, hence my interest in both.
A couple of points:
Fae, you never mention Midnight Braid in your guides. It seems like a big deal for the build!
Hoff, Fae meant use Ingenuity support with the Skeletal Cleric, not the Ingenuity node on the passive tree.
Great point, I'll add it!
That belt seems kinda broken o_o' that will probably get nerfed sooner or later. But the same thing can be said for ES stacking xd
Woah ok, I am glad that my request to Fae started this discussion and analysis - I might have got a little more than I expected!
First of all thank you to both posters for going a lot more in depth into their version of the build. I hope the discussion goes on, and also that it remains civil.
I will refrain from commenting on everything I wanted, since the two guide authors talk directly to each other, (and provide tons of information for us in doing so). I will just say that I agree with lots of the points Fae makes. However I am not in the endgame yet, and not everything that works in the campaign will work in maps. And a lot of my reasoning is based on my experience with PoE 1 mechanics, which might not always translate to PoE 2. It seems that vanilla ES is the way to go, after all.
At the moment I am mixing and matching a little. I use Hoff's support setup, but I did trade one of my Arsonists for two Clerics. The uptime feels better; if there is any difference in DPS, I haven't noticed it yet. But I am at the point where the builds start to diverge more, hence my interest in both.
A couple of points:
Fae, you never mention Midnight Braid in your guides. It seems like a big deal for the build!
Hoff, Fae meant use Ingenuity support with the Skeletal Cleric, not the Ingenuity node on the passive tree.
Great point, I'll add it!
That belt seems kinda broken o_o' that will probably get nerfed sooner or later. But the same thing can be said for ES stacking xd
One mage is worth it over one arsonist but if it takes you to drop two arsonists for a mage it is not worth it. I have already pointed this out in the guide.
If you get 20-35% shock effect on a boss it is still better than having one extra arsonist.
I've tested the Mage on multiple occasions, and for me, bosses consistently die before I can benefit from the shock effect.
Last edited by Fae_Lyth#6750 on Dec 15, 2024, 6:00:26 PM
Ugh, someone mentioned a Ghazzy build. Makes me throw up in my mouth a little bit.
He just poops out builds for the clicks eh?
I'm in camp Hoffen in general. Lvl 56 and straight into end game build and it's great so far.
Although, I like Fae's skeletal cleric, grabbing Entropic Incarnation, and I'll prolly path through the minion nodes at the start.
I'll gimp myself some ES but we'll see....
Last edited by TheStabbie#6805 on Dec 15, 2024, 7:42:09 PM
One mage is worth it over one arsonist but if it takes you to drop two arsonists for a mage it is not worth it. I have already pointed this out in the guide.
If you get 20-35% shock effect on a boss it is still better than having one extra arsonist.
I've tested the Mage on multiple occasions, and for me, bosses consistently die before I can benefit from the shock effect.
I think you are right for the campaign setup, I am used to thinking of how often I shock with my late setup with 4 supports. Having one in the end game is definitely worth it but I suppose not in the campaign.
One mage is worth it over one arsonist but if it takes you to drop two arsonists for a mage it is not worth it. I have already pointed this out in the guide.
If you get 20-35% shock effect on a boss it is still better than having one extra arsonist.
I've tested the Mage on multiple occasions, and for me, bosses consistently die before I can benefit from the shock effect.
I think you are right for the campaign setup, I am used to thinking of how often I shock with my late setup with 4 supports. Having one in the end game is definitely worth it but I suppose not in the campaign.
I can testify that this is the case at least until T7 maps as well.
Further than that, I'd need to playtest.
have you guys checked kripps build? Fully focused on getting STR and Life rather than any ES/Mana shenanigans
https://mobalytics.gg/poe-2/builds/life-stacker-infernalist-kripp
