every time i try an ARPG because i get overwhelmed by POE

The word 'overwhelmed' can go both ways though: I chose PoE back in 2012 because every other ARPG seemed to have lost their identity as 'ARPGs', but then once PoE revealed itself years later as more of a gambling/trade simulator demanding Excel spreadsheet-level theorising, I was out. Thank goodness between 2012 and now we've had a decent resurgence of ARPGs that dispense with most of that carry-on and focus on what ARPGs have always been for me, from my first moments playing the shareware version of Diablo 1: kill shit, find shit, equip shit, kill shit. There is an inflexion point where the complexity overwhelms the compulsion, and for me PoE crossed that point somewhere around 3.0 -- Fall of Oriath was peak PoE imo.

I am really, really glad that PoE exists for those of you who want more from an ARPG, but I'm equally glad that there's enough room in the genre for less demanding fare. I've got much more important shit going on in my life than playing a computer game; PoE demands too much of what I need and want to give to other things. I can give .1% of myself to DIV or WH40kI or Titan Quest or Sacred 2 and enjoy them as ARPGs just fine. I feel like I'd need to give at least ten times that amount to get a similar level of enjoyment out of PoE.

*shrug* There was a casual light at the end of the hardcore tunnel, and I happily went into it.

@Charan

Have You tried Incerdible Adventures of Van Helsing?

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de99ial wrote:

@Charan

Have You tried Incerdible Adventures of Van Helsing?

I have, long ago. Same devs as WH40KI. I hear they kinda did a dirty when they shut off the servers and didn't give players an offline mode -- something they've already done with 40kI thank goodness.

Integrating past league content in the core game was the BEST move GGG ever made.

Ah yeah, «opening a map» achievement (16%) could be used too... with caveats :

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mefistozxz wrote:

[...]
As for the map device opening, did you know that there were maps back when the game only had 3 acts? So already theres strike one against that stat. People could open maps, while also NOT completing the story. Additionally, maps were far easier to reach back in the day so there's a complete difference in achievement difficulty.

Still kind of the case today, you open your first map in act 7 (Maligaro's entrails, yum).
(Also, yeah, note how it's higher than completing Part 2 !)

Also, yeah, PoE1 came out on Steam 9 months after release, and crossing the 3M players mark even before that...
But the situation with D4 is somewhat similar here too, 4 months after release,
(though the D4 Steam player base is probably relatively much smaller even today ?)
and I had picked the «finished Part 2» statistic as it seemed the best comparison with the «Completed Campaign» in D4 : roughly mid-game for both,
(though I guess PoE is also a MUCH bigger game, after 11 years of updates).

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There are many issues with steam "achievements" to the point of them being virtually useless to use as legitimate stats in any argument.

«Have to be used with caution» rather than «virtually useless» I'd say.

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Phrazz wrote:

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vampirekid13 wrote:

i end up back here somehow.

Same here!

I've tried every ARPG out there. Some of them are quite good, actually, but they never seem to hold my attention for long. There are mainly two reasons for that;

1) Freedom

Spoiler

PoE isn't the perfect game and has lots of flaws. But what it does have, is build freedom, especially if you put in the hours and the currency, which you get from putting in the hours. It may very well be an illusion, but in PoE it feels like you are playing 'your' build, or at least 'someone's' build, and not GGG's build. In other ARPGs, there are so few paths that you always feel like you're playing a path carefully planned, carefully balanced and carefully limited by the developer. Example: If you want to play Fireball in PoE, how many options do you have? Several classes, several ascendancies, several builds, several paths, several weapon choices, several support gem options... In Diablo 4? Well... One (and a half) option(s).

The only game that comes close; Last Epoch, but I feel it's not "quite there" yet, but I think it will be. PoE has a "few" years head start.

2) Endgame. We can say tons of negative things about PoE's endgame, but I think it's still the strongest endgame of any ARPG. Ever. Cluttered? Yes. Bloated? Yes. But still the best - with the most content.

LE is more like D4 since it has a set + static class fantasy for each class (+ all masteries) but allows to modify the skills of said classes to a greater extent. It has some freedem but way less than PoE.
Will never see a Chaos Bolts hurling Primalist or a Raptor companion Acolyte only the approx 2 dozen skills across all 3 masteries + base class that each class has.

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Phrazz wrote:

The only game that comes close; Last Epoch, but I feel it's not "quite there" yet, but I think it will be. PoE has a "few" years head start.

I don't like when people say "head start" when comparing a game released now vs 10 years ago, its giving the new game an excuse to be bad.

See it from the other perspective, Last epoch has 11 years of POE content to browse and see what they want to implement similar, see what poe players complains were, what they would like to have,...

Last epoch was in steam early acess since 2019, until now their endgame is as lack luster as it was back then.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

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de99ial wrote:

@Charan

Have You tried Incerdible Adventures of Van Helsing?

I have, long ago. Same devs as WH40KI. I hear they kinda did a dirty when they shut off the servers and didn't give players an offline mode -- something they've already done with 40kI thank goodness.

I'm actually playing Incredible Adventures with two friends. If you have it on Steam, you can still play it, online and ... perhaps not offline, being on Steam, but definitely single player.

It's really well made, IMO, but I don't really know what I'm doing. :o)

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FearZGamer wrote:

I don't like when people say "head start" when comparing a game released now vs 10 years ago, its giving the new game an excuse to be bad.

Fair enough.

But that's how I see it: "All" new ARPGs are (somewhat) bad compared to PoE (IMO) because of the massive amounts of free content PoE has gotten over the last decade. No matter if people (understandably) see it as bloated, "all quantity" or cluttered, it's still a massive pedestal to beat in terms of pure content. They have to compete with what PoE is today, not what PoE was in EA. So in my mind, it is a head start, because releasing a game with that much content is a close-to impossible task.

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BlueTemplar85 wrote:

«Have to be used with caution» rather than «virtually useless» I'd say.

Actually you did something great in this post that you basically have to do in order to use those stats with caution: use multiple comparisons.

You can't pick one in isolation and use it in any situation. it IS useless like that because there are just too many issues. But if you, say, compare the map stats to the act 2 stats, to the kitava stats, to the piety stats, etc., you can actually paint a somewhat useful picture.

Only problem with all that is a person doing all that WELL....it just won't likely happen. And even if you create a great comparison picture: the numbers are functionally still inaccurate and not very helpful in arguments.