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OP ignores the "positives" that already exist in current mapping, either purposely or ignorantly.

Every "negative" mod described correspondingly comes with a "positive" buff to loot. There is your tradeoff effect. More mods = more difficult = more loot. It's the reason why those "%more explicit modifier power" atlas nodes have been SO popular since they were added on the tree.

If they introduce "positive" mods, then presumably those would DECREASE loot in the maps which.....would be far worse.


Also....you get to choose the map you run. You have 100% control over the difficulty or risk. This is more control than most other games give you.

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BaumisMagicalWorld wrote:

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Scarletsword wrote:

Asking for more interesting modifiers is a completely reasonable critique but wanting to be rewarded for having an easier time than the baseline of difficulty is how you get players to go back to running 2k life deadeyes.

Who said anything about rewards? You are putting words in my mouth.

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BaumisMagicalWorld wrote:

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of Greed
Unique Monsters have 200% more Quantity and Rarity of Items dropped
Non-Unique Monsters do not drop Items

Yeah, I have no clue how I got that idea.

^you also forgot the comparison to blight and buffing chests.....lol. Putting words into mouth indeed. It is ALWAYS about reward. Not a bad thing to argue, but you gotta own it.

I'd also like to say that the premise of this entire thread by the OP: dichotonomy of "Love it or hate it", simply does not exist.

The actual feelings towards mapping is far more gray, it is only a minority on BOTH ends that either love it or hate it. People are far more picky about things that have next to nothing to do with "general" mapping: the state of various mechanics, drops in general, etc.

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BaumisMagicalWorld wrote:

Edit: And by the way, in case it isn't obvious: I wasn't talking about loot, I was talking about gameplay. Perhaps don't strafe off-topic and then act as if I said those things in the first place.

Clearly you are getting aggressive...because people are pointing out holes in your argument.

You CANNOT talk about "gameplay only" when you are talking about "the state of mapping". Mapping and loot go hand in hand. If you want "easy" mapping, you run white maps. The only reason map mods exist in the first place is to increase loot and challenge. That is their purpose. You can't just....ignore that.

T17s represent the pinnacle difficulty of mapping. Assuming you have a build capable of t17s, you have ALREADY gone through 16 other tiers of mapping, at various difficulty levels, learning the strengths and weaknesses of your build. T17s are a CHALLENGE mode. You aren't meant to be rolling "easy" things on them. You, as a player, are CHOOSING to run higher tier maps because they are harder and offer more reward. It is the basic design. ADDING challenge, not decreasing it.

"A Blighted Map allows you to counteract certain mods or give you better outcomes on top, i.e. reducing monster move speed or adding more rewards to chests." -THIS is where your argument started. Literally about loot. You can't backtrack now and not expect pushback. Your whole comparison to Blighted Maps is steeped in the fact that blight mods offer more rewards. Well guess what? EVERY map mod, even moreso on t17s, "adds more rewards".

Yep, disagreement and pointing out half-baked and contradictory statements is "dragging posts down".

"Why mapping/t17s feel terrible": i mean, with a title like that, clearly you never had any interest in "general discussion" which is the forum YOU chose to post this in.

Whatever man...keep your aggression and anger to yourself. The actual idea of this thread is a good discussion, with people who actually have an interest in discussing it.

Choosing to ignore the fundamental reason for the mechanic being discussed is disingenuous and a non-starter.

Map tier: difficulty increases for those who do not want to have to account for additional difficulty modifiers

Map mods: difficulty increases WITHIN the map tier that offer added risk for added reward. Map mods do NOT exist to make things easier. They just don't.

And if you want to discuss mods that DO make things easier, then you MUST also discuss how that would have an effect on loot. Because mods = loot. That is why they exist in PoE. They do NOT exist in a non-loot vacuum, like they might in other games.

Your final quote from the last post makes it clear that you want to discuss a completely different game...ignoring HOW the things you discuss actually operate within PoE.

Why is it always personal attacks whenever someone disagrees in any way? Is it really that difficult to come to different conclusions and allow other people to have other viewpoints? This forum isn't an echochamber.

If there would be a mod like that^, that you can roll with chaos orbs a div would be 80 chaos or less by tommorow haha. Sounds a little to powerful^^

€: Also if you like that so much why not try t17s with 3* domination scarabs? They are cheap, they are efficient, they add extra magic monsters if you have the atlas point. I used 2* when i was weaker. Shrines can carry you through the map if it's close.

Synth maps, unlike T17s, are not affected by atlas passives.

The only issue about T17 maps, is that fragments feel more rewarding if you sell them, then if you run them.

Let's take Uber Maven for example: you spend ~6 divines for a run, and have like 90% chance to get just a 10c unique as reward. To get even, you need to run dozens of them. Same with Uber Eater.