game unplayable, some notes on why.
"This is exactly what i have been saying for more than 2 years now.The game is constantly balanced around the top performing builds and the amount of damage and defences needed now to be able to do endgame content these days has reached a point where so many builds are simply unplayable cause they cant be scaled this way. I really liked playing totems back in the days but they are pretty much useless outside of sanctum or ZHP boss farming now unless u dont mind dying alot and using 6 portals every map. they simply cant scale the defences and sustain needed while having enough dps to clear endgame content I also liked playing minion builds like golems and zombies or whatever i found fun, but even minions have very few good builds these days and i hate having to play the one or two options that are left now. Seems like only poison minions are viable these days and maybe the zoomancer but anyway when it comes to defences and dps they are still far behind and mostly have to rely on not getting hit which can be pretty hard with all the screen clutter and invisible ground effects these days. To be honest i miss the days where i could pick any skill and make it work with a few basic defences and some not too expensive gear without spending many hours theory crafting and following a specific meta, this is just not possible anymore and soo many skills simply cant be scaled to match the current state of the game, now u pretty much need to follow the meta and get a mageblood if u want to have a fun time farming and not die 3-4 times per map | |
" I've never seen someone say such an absurd thing in this forum so far as you have. You dont need to follow the meta to play endgame, you dont need to "get a mageblood if you want to have a fun time and not die", what you do need is know what you are doing and build basic multiple defenses to not die, something very easy to do on any build. "I have 8k hp, why am I dying so much?" Looks at the rest of the defenses: non existant. "Oh I cant do uber sirus with my 10c rolling magma build, I miss the days I could use shield charge to kill T16 mobs". Last edited by Satan on Feb 10, 1692, 10:00:00 PM
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" It can be pretty hard to wedge in every needed defense to just take a basic hit here and there, they made spell suppression almost mandatory for example and for me there's some issues with there being not enough space or even available equipment to add in the required defenses to do ubers with minions for example unless you're ok with them dying (i'm not) Innocence forgives you Last edited by SilentSymphony on Sep 8, 2024, 11:44:15 AM
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"I do know what i am doing and i dont die much and i actually do have mageblood too but thats not the point, the real point is the amount of defences u need these days only fits certain archetypes and skill choices and this is what happens when u choose to balance the game around the top performing builds. As far as i can see im not the only one with this opinion and like someone else said i wouldnt touch like 90% of the skills in this game cause they simply cant scale enough defences without sacrificing too much dps to be viable So ur claim of "Ooh u just need to know what ur doing and build multiple defences" might actually be the most absurd thing and sounds more like the meta players response when people make posts of actual issues with balancing I have 15k hours in this game and been playing pretty much on and off since 2013 so i know very well how the game has changed over the years, i also have no trouble making a char that can do any content but the diversity is gone and many skills and build types just cant scale this way and many of the builds i really liked playing is pretty much gutted now and i hate having to play builds that really dont have my interrest just because they are the only ones capable of checking all the dps and defence boxes to match engame requirements Another issue is the amount of skill effects and screen clutter that has been added over the years making the good old "just dont get hit 4head" pretty much impossible now, u pretty much need to be able to take a hit cause skill wont save u anymore since in many scenarioes the visibility is non existing Last edited by MrPedez on Sep 8, 2024, 12:30:23 PM
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Hmmm...."game unplayable, some notes on why". Okay, VERY catchy title, very extreme.
52000 people are currently playing via steam. Hmmm. Not off to a great start. "Spectres stink because.....why?": you sort of mention specifics, but never actually get into any of them so you just leave us with these broad sweeping comments on their inviability....without actually saying why they are inviable. And you STILL haven't clarified what you are talking about in 3 pages of comments about it. You just end up attacking and deflecting the person who challenged your claim. Back to the title now, "game is unplayable" because spectres are (presumably) bad? What? The only skill in the game is spectres now? "Deleting builds at an astonishing rate"....the "rate" at which they are destroying builds is nowhere near some of the past instances of massive "nerfs". CoCS from 1.0 - 2.0 says hi. Spells in general pre 3.0 say hi. Melee post-3.8 (i think) says hi. Mana guardians say hi. Aura stackers say hi. All things gladiator pre-3.25 says hi. OG cluster jewel builds from Delirium say hi. I could go on and on and on. If anything, the rate of build deletion has significantly slowed since 3.14 major overhaul. Its true that the meta hasn't shifted as much as it should have (until this league), but that doesn't equally translate to builds getting deleted. It actually more likely points to a certain sort of "stability". "Rare item craze": they require the most work. They require the most currency. They have the most customization. OF COURSE they are going to be the "chase" items for many slots in builds. It would be STUPID design to have unique items be BiS for every piece of gear. That's D3 design which was....awful. Plus, after a lot of the reworks in recent leagues, there are more uniques than ever that have a role in a wide variety of builds. In fact, rare items beating out uniques in a lot of scenarios shows that the itemization is rather healthy: a custom fit ends up being better than a one-size-fits-all. And before you say, then allow uniques to be modifiable......they are called UNIQUES. Make them modifiable and they cease to be uniques, they just end up being more powerful...rare items at that point. Last edited by jsuslak313 on Sep 8, 2024, 3:31:53 PM
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"Spectres actually kind of stink compared to what they used to be back in their prime. They are still playable but still far from any top tier build out there and to some extend they suffer from the same issues as many other builds that doesnt have ez access to scaling defences and dps at the same time. I do still play spectres but like most other minion builds nowadays u are kind of stuck with poison if u want to do endgame content and not be too picky about mod rolls on maps. I know there is a few builds that still kind of works ok but i have tried quite a few of them and compared to the avrage meta builds they do seem to stink and to be honest they are really not worth the investment needed to push them to endgame unless u really love the playstyle like i do. Besides all this many of the new spectres have terrible AI and stupid mechanics like the annoying flee mechanic on forged frosbearers, and u do need to spend alot more skill points on minion surviability these days meaning there will be fewer points left for dps and ur own defences. Its a constant battle every league to make these builds somewhat viable again and every league they seem to be getting weaker due to endgame balancing and the constant need for more and more defensive layers to compensate for the changes. As for the meta and why it hasn't really changed alot is probably because people stick to the builds that have ez access to scaling defensive layers while having high dps and the melee changes this league shifted the meta a bit cause the bottom left side of the tree has pretty ez access to scaling defences and melee got a huge dps buff Last edited by MrPedez on Sep 8, 2024, 6:36:16 PM
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^no reason to discuss WHY the meta hasn't shifted. Everyone kinda knows that and it wasn't really the point...
The point was that a fairly static meta can correlate with less build deletion because things are NOT being nerfed out of play like they used to. It's the large meta shifts that typically point to build deletions. And YES thank you for actually providing real, tangible reasons relating to spectres and their viability. And you know? You say they stink compared to their heyday (true ofc, same can be said for all minions), but they are still plenty playable. They aren't even downright BAD...some spectres might be, but there are plenty of good ones AND good spectre builds. Not to mention there are numerous new spectres that provide buffs for other builds that are pretty strong. Again, see the work that Ghazzy has done, among others. However, OP posited that spectres are essentially unplayable altogether...without offering any meaningful examples when asked and presented with opposing, fully detailed and researched points from the player who is widely regarded as the king of all things minion across the entire PoE playerbase. OP dismissed this....which is like someone coming along and dismissing PohX's work on RF offhand because OP obviously knows more and has more experience....but won't share it. Last edited by jsuslak313 on Sep 8, 2024, 6:50:53 PM
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"Yeah just blowing of some steam here, i do know Ghazzy and i do watch alot of his content but i also experiment alot with different minion builds because thats what i like. I have played since 2013 and been playing almost every league besides sythesis league so i would like to think that i have a pretty good understanding of how this game has changed over the years. I will say though im not too happy about the direction it has taken the past couple of years but thats just me, i mean the game mechanics and league stuff is pretty good and i do like the kingsmarch mechanic too but i dont really like the balancing of the endgame being based on top performing builds instead of balancing the builds so the underperforming builds can still be played | |
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Op wasnt even talking about forged frostbearers either. They specifically said "new spectre's"
Aka the affliction ones that were brought back this league. And the haste tiger I think last I looked was 10 divs. As for forged frost bearer build though. Ghazzy's is pretty standard tank and reliably good damage. It isnt the topest of top kek damage but you could make that argument about anything that wasnt Tshot for 5 leagues+ in a row. Wouldnt really mean anything. Perfectly capable of doing all content as well. Does more damage than my fire SRS build, and has more tank, and that could clear ubers just fine. Mash the clean Last edited by Mashgesture on Sep 8, 2024, 7:35:13 PM
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" Grace* Tiger Respectfully.. Its Ghazzy's Job, If Ghazzy want's to come in here and throw down then by all means that actually sounds lovely given they probably would not be difficult to have a calm conversation with. But the thread's not entirely about that in fact that was just something i wrote in at a later because i want more exposure on the spectre issues, The removal of builds from the game isn't an issue that's recent one or related to a single class, many have been modified in ways that threatened to and in some cases did remove builds from the game permanently... Though when i say permanently there is some ebb and flow when an ascendancy passive that was hugely enabling is removed but then added in a unique item or skill tree passive which some have but not all and of course its not just with ascendancy's or the skill tree but changes to items too. Someone did release a Frostbearer Build a few days after i decided not to release mine because the frostbearers were literally so broken that i found it to be unethical to release it as their damage output was much higher than it should have been to the point it seemed like a bug, I raced so fast through the storyline with those spectres as soon as i got the gem, I have never had such an easy ride in my entire life and im not talking just storyline it went all the way into red maps with absolute garbage gear i picked up(in the storyline like level 30), i dumped that character and made something else. I was excited it was to be my 2nd released build in the whole of the time i've been playing so it was a huge bummer not to release it. Innocence forgives you Last edited by SilentSymphony on Sep 8, 2024, 9:25:22 PM
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