Recent Economic Abuse

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PhrozenEclipse wrote:

I get you guys point, however, you are going to have to try harder if it is your stance that GGG "Intended" for one specific mechanic to drop you 1k raw divines in under a week. It is not "Reasonable" to believe that as a result of said intended mechanic that the drops that did drop where therefore intended. Those are completely separate issues. Once the "intended" mechanic was used and found to have "Unintended" results(btw, there is loads of evidence to support that GGG doesn't intend this from prior events), it should have been reported. No one is arguing the mechanic, but to insinuate that you thought GGG intended to ruin the economy in this way is not a valid argument and you all know it.

Well you clearly dont understand what they did because they werent dropping raw divines. So maybe youre unaware of what our arguments are since youre unaware of the methods they used to farm their currency.

You are going to have to try harder to show that a divination card that only takes one card, turns in for 5 divines, is clearly shown to be able to drop on Tier 1 maps (Blocking all other Div card drops, very common mechanic in this game) and implementing an ability to Scry maps and change the div cards to drop from other maps, using scarabs which guarantee divination card drops from rare packs and scarabs which duplicate divination cards at bosses, Isnt working exactly as one would expect and intended.

You keep using the "result" to justify the method. The methods used were intended. The result being good are not on the player, thats on GGG. Again no one is saying GGG cant say "Oops our bad, delete the gains, fix the problem. The issue is the Ban for using the exactly intended mechanics exactly as they are shown, with the exact expected result and being banned for it.

Delete the divines, who cares? Dont ban people for playing the game exactly as they showed just because the result isnt what was expected. This is "Abusing" a mechanic like using Heist to get jewelry for chaos recipes. Just because the currency received is lower doesnt mean that you arent using the mechanics exactly as they are presented to the players.

loot increase when

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BuyTradeSell wrote:

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de99ial wrote:

If You see a mechanic and are aware that it is NOT as intended to be and still decide to use it - exploitation.

Thats it. It is simple.

Name the part of the mechanic that wasnt intended. We will wait...

Tell me when You go to ATM machine and You see that it spills money like crazy - what You do?

False equivalency - an ATM machine randomly spilling money would be a glitch, a bug, an error. Scrying and blocking the cards in the way that was done is not a bug in the game's code - it's working exactly how the game is designed in all normal use cases re: blocking cards. GGG just missed this edge case.

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de99ial wrote:

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BuyTradeSell wrote:

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de99ial wrote:

If You see a mechanic and are aware that it is NOT as intended to be and still decide to use it - exploitation.

Thats it. It is simple.

Name the part of the mechanic that wasnt intended. We will wait...

Tell me when You go to ATM machine and You see that it spills money like crazy - what You do?

do you even know what happened in this situation? your analogy makes no sense.

There was no glitch or bug involved, this was an oversight from GGG.

We're still waiting for you to name what part of the mechanic that wasnt working as intended btw.

This exact thing is what I am referencing. If the ATM spits out money and you just continually take from it knowing its not supposed to you go to jail when you are caught for theft. That's the point. You guys are arguing a dead point. Every single player here knows that it was not intended to have that drop table. EVERY SINGLE ONE. Method doesn't matter. It was exploited after knowing it wasn't intended period. Any other argument is null and void and is why the players got banned. Had they have not exploited it 249 additional times, this would be a different conversation or better yet, not a conversation at all.

So a mechanic just absurdly spilling out cards that would be game breaking long term isn't an error, bug, or glitch? Fascinating argument XD

Just so you know, GGG missing something is an ERROR or BUG! So its exactly the same. Comparable.

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False equivalency - an ATM machine randomly spilling money would be a glitch, a bug, an error. Scrying and blocking the cards in the way that was done is not a bug in the game's code - it's working exactly how the game is designed in all normal use cases re: blocking cards. GGG just missed this edge case.

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Well you clearly dont understand what they did because they werent dropping raw divines. So maybe youre unaware of what our arguments are since youre unaware of the methods they used to farm their currency.

You are going to have to try harder to show that a divination card that only takes one card, turns in for 5 divines, is clearly shown to be able to drop on Tier 1 maps (Blocking all other Div card drops, very common mechanic in this game) and implementing an ability to Scry maps and change the div cards to drop from other maps, using scarabs which guarantee divination card drops from rare packs and scarabs which duplicate divination cards at bosses, Isnt working exactly as one would expect and intended.

You keep using the "result" to justify the method. The methods used were intended. The result being good are not on the player, thats on GGG. Again no one is saying GGG cant say "Oops our bad, delete the gains, fix the problem. The issue is the Ban for using the exactly intended mechanics exactly as they are shown, with the exact expected result and being banned for it.

Delete the divines, who cares? Dont ban people for playing the game exactly as they showed just because the result isnt what was expected. This is "Abusing" a mechanic like using Heist to get jewelry for chaos recipes. Just because the currency received is lower doesnt mean that you arent using the mechanics exactly as they are presented to the players.

The mechanic isn't the issue, it was when they learned of the ginormous bug. No one cares about the method, its the gamebreaking "Result" that wasn't intended and should have been reported. If a player is abusing the "Unintended" drops and don't say anything how exactly is ggg supposed to address it? That's the issue and why there should be an obligation to report it. The fact they did it 249 additional times shows more than just the knowledge that it was busted, but then abused for self benefit in spite of the detrimental impact to the economy and to the rest of the community that could have. For that reason, ban ban ban.

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chuck109 wrote:

False equivalency - an ATM machine randomly spilling money would be a glitch, a bug, an error. Scrying and blocking the cards in the way that was done is not a bug in the game's code - it's working exactly how the game is designed in all normal use cases re: blocking cards. GGG just missed this edge case.

Can you explain what exackly had to be done to use that mechanic?

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prem0e wrote:

(...)

Are you awaree that atm machine can be set badly by men?

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PhrozenEclipse wrote:

If the ATM spits out money and you just continually take from it knowing its not supposed to you go to jail when you are caught for theft

Absolutely false analogy. When you withdraw money from an ATM, you are taking out money that is yours, possibly paying a fee for that exchange, and have agreed to be liable for withdrawals, including possibly a sizeable penalty for over withdrawals. Your card/account terms do not allow you to withdraw money that isn't yours (subject to loan agreements). Game drops are allowed by the game and aren't forbidden. You aren't withdrawing drops that were yours to begin with. If people were pulling more currency/cards out of their stash, than their stash had, it would be such an exploit.

The "exploit" was like a bank offering a 25 cent account credit for people who never used a bank branch office, 25 cents credit for people who only used their phone app to check balances and double credits for people who didn't use their account during peak hours, and the bank not realizing someone could $1.00 in credit not just per day, but for hundreds of transactions every day.

A bank would halt such promotions and rewrite the rules. GGG should be declaring Mea Culpa on this bug.

If GGG ever implemented diminishing returns, they would never have largely exploitable bugs. GGG has hundreds of millions of dollars of annual revenue. They can prevent these problems. Every league presents new potentially exploitable mechanisms. Some are for more damage, some for more survivability, some are for more loot. Previous "the Vision" patches only enforce the idea that GGG implements many such loopholes on purpose.

That one small group would find them and utilize them to such a disadvantage of everyone else is almost certainly NOT what GGG wanted. They are well within their rights to stop such exploits.

The blame lies in the mirror though in this case. This wasn't some weird manipulation of the game that forced errors.

Imagine if their was a league where people were running T7 maps and making a fortune.... if such a thing had happened, surely we would remember it, and GGG could have learned from that.

They already gate many things behind certain bosses and map tiers. This was easily preventable on GGG's part.