Automation Gem skill in 3.24

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Tensair wrote:

Exactly. They are giving us a QoL with a gameplay downside. Why? What's the logic behind this design decision? What is their goal here?

So using the support doesn't become a nobrainer. Either do it manually and enjoy the benefits and downsides or use the automation support and live with the downsides and enjoy the benefits.

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Tensair wrote:

Why not add more similar "options" to the game then?

Indeed, this seems like an excellent idea. There's no need to just have this one gem that offers players a choice to alter skill functionality at a cost, they could make this a whole category of gems, making all sorts of changes, which would be applicable to some skills but not others depending on what they do. We could have one that stores a charge of an instant skill, for example, or one that adds an element-based shield when you've been channeling for a while. They could also do less interesting things like just adding more damage, or speeding up attacks.

I hope GGG get on this as soon as possible and make it as wide-ranging as possible; instant-cast spells aren't special, this system should provide options for all skill types.

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Mikrotherion wrote:

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Tensair wrote:

Exactly. They are giving us a QoL with a gameplay downside. Why? What's the logic behind this design decision? What is their goal here?

So using the support doesn't become a nobrainer. Either do it manually and enjoy the benefits and downsides or use the automation support and live with the downsides and enjoy the benefits.

My points here are:
1. Having a power-up/def cooldown in your build that gives you some benefits for N seconds every X seconds is a nice thing to have.
2. Integrating such an options in your build is a fun problem to solve. It requires knowledge and skill. Build crafting at it's best.
3. Mandatory manual pressing of a button every X seconds to get a buff for N seconds is not a skill-based gameplay, it doesn't add any depth to your gameplay and It's not fun. It's a chore.

Why not get rid of a chore and keep all the fun stuff?

One could argue that by adding this automation gems they are giving us more tools to tinker with thus making build crafting more fun. But I don't see how there can be any real choice between "no QoL but more power" and "QoL but less power". For any real endgame build this in not a choice.

Why not just give us a UI toggle to autocast certain CD skills? This won't break the game balance, will keep the fun part, get rid of the chore - total win for players, no?

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

Indeed, this seems like an excellent idea. There's no need to just have this one gem that offers players a choice to alter skill functionality at a cost, they could make this a whole category of gems, making all sorts of changes, which would be applicable to some skills but not others depending on what they do. We could have one that stores a charge of an instant skill, for example, or one that adds an element-based shield when you've been channeling for a while. They could also do less interesting things like just adding more damage, or speeding up attacks.

I hope GGG get on this as soon as possible and make it as wide-ranging as possible; instant-cast spells aren't special, this system should provide options for all skill types.

I'm all up for new support gems that ACTUALLY change your gameplay and the way active skills work.
But this case here with the automation gem is not that. It doesn't change the way your CD skill works - it just presses the button for you every X seconds at the cost of making this skill worse. You're giving up an entire gem socket for this (and this is a HUGE downside as it is), then this support gem also makes your active skill worse by increasing CD and making it cost more. Where's the fun in that? Do we really have to pay such a price for an in-game autoclicker?
Personally, I don't think so.

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Tensair wrote:

It doesn't change the way your CD skill works - it just presses the button for you every X seconds at the cost of making this skill worse.

That is literally changing how they work. They initially work the same way most skills work: according to the implicit rule “this skill activates when you press its associated key”. The support gem changes that functionality.

See also: cast on crit, cast when stunned, cast when damage taken etc. It’s really just another in that series of supports. You may as well ask “Why not just give us a UI toggle to cast when damage is taken, that will keep the fun and get rid of the chore” and the answer is the same: because the game’s design from the outset has been that support gems are the way you customise your skills.

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Tensair wrote:

Exactly. They are giving us a QoL with a gameplay downside. Why? What's the logic behind this design decision? What is their goal here?

By adding this "option" they're not making gameplay any deeper or more interesting.
Why not add more similar "options" to the game then? Like, take away sound options from the menu, make sound level permanently 200% loud and add a support gem to tune the sound level to a previous comfortable 100%? Or make the game grayscale by default and to make it in color again you should be wearing a special item sacrificing your head gear slot. Or make it so every second mouse click won't register so you'll have to click twice as more to get the same result and then give us an "option" to fix it by chugging a special potion like every 5 seconds?

To me these analogies are as absurd as what they did with the new automation "option" (which is not actually an option for most players).

+1 I LOL'd IRL

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

That is literally changing how they work. They initially work the same way most skills work: according to the implicit rule “this skill activates when you press its associated key”. The support gem changes that functionality.

See also: cast on crit, cast when stunned, cast when damage taken etc. It’s really just another in that series of supports. You may as well ask “Why not just give us a UI toggle to cast when damage is taken, that will keep the fun and get rid of the chore” and the answer is the same: because the game’s design from the outset has been that support gems are the way you customise your skills.

I think we understand the "changing the way a skill works" part differently.

For me it means changing the functionality of the skill. The effect it gives or how it gives it's effect. Examples:
1. Turning a curse into an aura - you change the way a curse is applied. Instead of target casting the curse on someone you really dislike, you curse everyone foolish enough to come close to you. This changes your gameplay - now you have to get closer to enemies and put yourself in more danger but you don't have to spend time casting. An interesting tradeoff the way I see it.
2. Turning a spell into a mine - you change the entire mechanics of the skill. You can stack mines, get auto aiming and get a new layer of damage scaling. In return you sacrifice other possible ways of scaling the damage and sacrifice a gem slot for a mine support. Another interesting tradeoff and a new type of gameplay.
3. Modified gems that work differently like the new Poison Concocton with an in-built chaining but you only throw one flask at a time. You sacrifice AOE overlapping potential but possibly get a better clear. A tradeoff and a new possible way for building around this skill.

Things like "Cast on Crit/Stun/Damage Taken" are a little bit different - these don't really change the way a skill works aside from the autotargeting in some cases. But they DO give you a way to integrate another game mechanic in your build on top of a skill.
For example, CoC makes it essential to scale crits but it frees you from casting spells manually. It even allows you to "automate" several spells at once IF you can afford the mana costs. Also it requires you to build around CDR and Cast Speed to optimize the speed of CoC procs - an interesting challenge that's fun to work around.
Cast when Stunned? Requires you to get stunned in the first place AND to survive it (ideally).
Cast on Damage Taken? Same as above - you either use it as an automatic "Oh Shit!" cast or build entirely around this mechanic (consistently taking damage and not dying) which is an interesting challenge in itself.

And the one thing that is common for all the support gems form examples above - you can't replicate their effects by just pressing correct buttons at the correct time in a correct order. They all give some unique modifications you can't get reliably in any other way for a skill.

And the new automation support gem? Does it change the way a skill works like the examples I gave above? Nope. Does it add a new mechanic on top of the existing skill like CoC and the like? Nope. Does it add something to a skill that you can't achieve reliably in another way? Nope, you can press the button yourself or, hell, just use a NumLock trick to autopress the button.
The only thing it gives is QoL - you won't have to click the skill yourself anymore. But sacrificing an entire gem slot for a QoL? And getting an additional debuff for a skill on top of that? Why? Too many downsides for a simple QoL improvement. The way I see it right now - this new gem is useless. Just give us a checkbox "Autocast" in skills UI right next to "Cast without moving" and everyone will be thakful. Or make this Automate gem more interesting in some other ways to justify giving up a gem slot for it.

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

NumLock trick

I dont know what this is, what is it, and how does it work?

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Tensair wrote:

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

this new gem is useless. Just give us a checkbox "Autocast" in skills UI right next to "Cast without moving" and everyone will be thakful.

Should'nt it then be an aura?
I dont see any difference between selected spells like the guard skills and auras once you put it on click to move. Aside from the on/off part of the toggle.
This game is just too full of stuff looking to make you shit teeth to react to something, with a 4 second duration. We already have active avoidance, movement skills and potions.

In other games buffing the duration would be the path. Say 10-20 seconds. 20-40 cooldown. Thats more of a window event and not a mash it forever event.
4 seconds is soooo fast.

No gems needed

Loop
{
ControlSend, , {Q}, WindowsApplication1
Sleep, 3000
}

You can easily cast a spell in an intervals without stressing your fingers. Unless it is a skill like phase run that you want to activate when you start moving... Wait! This is exactly what they have taken away!

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B00b wrote:

No gems needed

Loop
{
ControlSend, , {Q}, WindowsApplication1
Sleep, 3000
}

In summary for those that don't know what this does, it is a fast track to banned. :)