Diablo 4 is the best DIABLO game but i've now lost interest in the franchise

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MishkaBearFire4 wrote:

sadly d4 simply doesn't have the depth on any level to be fun for more than a few weeks after the start of the game, even S1 was already boring as hell, made me return to poe as soon as I had free time for ARPG's

I don't think it was meant to have lots of depth. I think they were going to the same D3 formula, it's basically a collectathon but with enough to character building that you could think if you wanted to. They're definitely targeting casuals and a specific niche of gamers.

Blizzard North nailed it with D2. There was no need to continue the franchise from that point forward, and the only way to go from those lofty heights was down.

To the fine folks who populated the halls of Blizzard North way back when, you guys kicked a lot of ass and gave me thousands of hours of entertainment, and for that you have my gratitude.

Blizzard (2023) != Blizzard North (1995-2003)

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CanHazName wrote:

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MishkaBearFire4 wrote:

sadly d4 simply doesn't have the depth on any level to be fun for more than a few weeks after the start of the game, even S1 was already boring as hell, made me return to poe as soon as I had free time for ARPG's

I don't think it was meant to have lots of depth. I think they were going to the same D3 formula, it's basically a collectathon but with enough to character building that you could think if you wanted to. They're definitely targeting casuals and a specific niche of gamers.

the problem the game has tho is the people who made it havent even really played D3. even super cosywiththedevs content creators like rhykker are saying in their videos 'why is this or that problem in the game? d3 solved this problem?'




people asked for more stash space in D3, jay wilson famously said 'if we give you more stash space youll just want even more stash space!' like the utter moron he was. eventually he was kicked out and better devs came in, recognised the stash space was pathetic and allowed us to have considerably more. in poe its infinite but you have to pay for it, and theres soft p2w debates there.

d4 is on the horizon. so people were questioning how will they handle stash space? in d3 they recognised ok 4 tabs doesnt cut it, in d3 we have 13 tabs now, poe people have 50+ tabs but its paid for, are they gonna have tabs be a microtransaction? are they gonna sell us the box game and give us the tabs we need or are they selling the box and then chiselling us for them as a paid extra?



d4 releases, people dont have enough tabs, stuff that shouldnt need to be stored in tabs like aspects and gems is clogging everyones stash. people demand more tabs, is this where the microtransactions come in? why have they limited tabs so much when we knew from d3 it was an issue, knew from poe? are they overloading our tabs with junk to have an excuse to sell them to us?

response: we hear you about wanting more stash space, but the way we coded the game every time you see a player you load their entire stash with all their items so we cant just give you a load more tabs because of the memory issues that will create with loading everyones stashes all the time.



so once you get over how insanely bad these people are at coding their game, think about this: when they were making this game they didnt realise people needing more tabs would be a thing. there was no plan to give us a lot more tabs like d3 did, and there was no plan for them to sell us more tabs like poe did, they didnt even factor more stash tabs being a potential issue in their arpg.

people were wondering where the d4 devs would sit on the stash tab debate, turns out the d4 devs are so completely worthless they didnt even realise there was a stash tab debate.


amazing.



the level of incompetence, the amount of how bad this game is that is not a plan to aim for a given market or to monetise something, the amount of it that is the randomness of a dev team completely ignorant of the game genre they are creating is amazing to behold.

in that sense its right, that statement above is right, they are going for the d3 formula because thats how d3 was made too. theyre didnt make a game to appeal to d3 fans, they dont understand d3 fans, but they followed the d3 forumla of not understanding who they were making a game for in the first place.

Isn't D4 done for after the disastrous 1st season?

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Johny_Snow wrote:

Isn't D4 done for after the disastrous 1st season?

hell no, they need to sell dlc now

i think they can fix it eventually, but it will need expansions and we will have to pay for them.


diablo n3 was a disaster on launch, same issue, lead dev jay wilson said when he was given the job of lead dev on d3 he had never played d2.

so youre a game developer, games are your life and you work for blizzard... and you havent even booted up and tried their flagship arpg, one of the most famous games ever made, and its by the studio you work? to me that means you dont like arpgs.

i have never tried wow. why? i hate mmos, i have never played a single mmo ever, 0 interest in the genre. every genre of games i have an interest in i have played the genre. this guy never played d2? so the guy who made d3 at best doesnt like arpgs.




but the guys working on d3 right now are great. this new season d3 just launched is awesome, the previous one with the alter was really good. the alter is going core, if this season thats out now goes core too then actually for the first time in 11 years diablo 3 might actually be a genuinely good arpg in a lot of ways. short lifespan, a casual and quick blast through compared to the epic of poe but actually given what theyve inherited and the scope of what they are able to implement theyve done something rly good.

d3 needed to get rid of that guy running the show who had no clue about this genre of games. d4 might have to go through a similar process, it might have to get worse and really fall apart before the sort of changes needed happen. i dont know if the people who made d4 are capable of fixing d4.

diablo 3 had to die twice before the right people with the right vision were allowed to step in and do good work.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

i think they can fix it eventually, but it will need expansions and we will have to pay for them.


diablo n3 was a disaster on launch, same issue, lead dev jay wilson said when he was given the job of lead dev on d3 he had never played d2.

so youre a game developer, games are your life and you work for blizzard... and you havent even booted up and tried their flagship arpg, one of the most famous games ever made, and its by the studio you work? to me that means you dont like arpgs.

i have never tried wow. why? i hate mmos, i have never played a single mmo ever, 0 interest in the genre. every genre of games i have an interest in i have played the genre. this guy never played d2? so the guy who made d3 at best doesnt like arpgs.




but the guys working on d3 right now are great. this new season d3 just launched is awesome, the previous one with the alter was really good. the alter is going core, if this season thats out now goes core too then actually for the first time in 11 years diablo 3 might actually be a genuinely good arpg in a lot of ways. short lifespan, a casual and quick blast through compared to the epic of poe but actually given what theyve inherited and the scope of what they are able to implement theyve done something rly good.

d3 needed to get rid of that guy running the show who had no clue about this genre of games. d4 might have to go through a similar process, it might have to get worse and really fall apart before the sort of changes needed happen. i dont know if the people who made d4 are capable of fixing d4.

diablo 3 had to die twice before the right people with the right vision were allowed to step in and do good work.

What?! D3 was best during first 2-3 weeks, difficult and entertaining with exciting loot. When they added paragon levels and dumb loot it went straight into the mud in every aspect. You can get max level and full gear in 1-2h and be done with the game, where is fun and progression in that?

i actually agree that in a lot of ways the loot got worse in RoS, i dunno if i would call the loot in vanilla exciting, but it got normalised out of existence in RoS. rare items used to be legit endgame items, im not a fan of the smart loot they introduced.


but i think the item system was still a bit shit, and then there was 0 endgame, the build system was trash and as much as the legendary aspects further trashed the item system they made the build system better. the crafting system was completely MIA, the vibe of the game was so tacky cartoon. i was super disappointed with d3 on launch and from there it feels like its taken as many steps backward as forwards in some ways.

but imo when they add next seasons changes its gonna end up in the best place its ever been in. its gonna be short in terms of the progression but in terms of the gameplay and things to do its actually got somewhere at last. given its age, do we really want it to be long game now? i dunno, im quite happy going in, smashing 2 weeks and then leaving. build diversity and content diversity is going to be at an all time high, item system is still terrible but i think thats so far beyond the scope of what they can change now, it just is what it is.



i would be happy with d4 if it offered as fun a 2 week smash as current d3 offers. we got poe right? i dont even want to be married to another game, ones enough, im good with a quarterly 10 night stand sidepiece. i think d3 has found its niche and its doing that well for my tastes.

Overall I agree that early d3 had 0 endgame (it had great and difficult inferno during first 3 weeks on release). Last time I played it was few years ago, we get a 4man party, gear up and on day 1 hit 120+ grift, fully geared, thats when whole group stopped playing. What else is there to do nowadays?

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Nomancs wrote:

Overall I agree that early d3 had 0 endgame (it had great and difficult inferno during first 3 weeks on release). Last time I played it was few years ago, we get a 4man party, gear up and on day 1 hit 120+ grift, fully geared, thats when whole group stopped playing. What else is there to do nowadays?

Current D3 offers some different stuff to do after you clear the story and are done with character progression, they have been trying to implement new things similar to how poe keeps things sort of fresh by introducing stuff in a regular basis

Problem is, none of it really interacts with the character, as the other guy said, itemization on D3 is FUBAR, it brings the consequence that no new content is trully significant, as it dont translates to character progression nor is stuff as fleshed out as true new story chapters. Its kinda like fresh league content with no new loot, the way it interacts with gear also highlights how for a looong while now, characters on D3 dont have much progression and pretty much everything after story is hollow number-raising

Basically, stuff that is exiting for the first few playtrough, but dont take more than a day for you to see everything it has to offer. Great for people who surfs between multiple games tapping just a few of post-story, but not stuff made for poe-like players who dives deep into the game. Its the niche D3 found, wich is far better than D4 that dont even have a niche...(and fittingly, even on twitch, D3 puts better numbers than D4...)