D4 had over 1 million closed beta access players, with multi-millions expected this weekend. Wow.

I'm surprised at the scope of changes given the time until launch.

The fact they are willing to take in feedback and apply it in a relatively short amount of time bodes well for future live service ambitions.

I am deeply concerned about the 3 month story content plan. That's either a LOT of sales already or some stiff reliance on battle pass sales.

Oh did you get the email detailing your weekend stats? That was a nice touch.

"

鬼殺し wrote:

Man those "patch notes" are solid.

Can't believe they caved on the sans serif font but jesus H bless em anyway. It was the last vestige of non-Diabloness in the UI imo.

Hydra untouched but eh they'll figure that one out.

Giving cellars more meaning is a no brainer.

More dungeon events and layout improvements good.

Still not sure how they will address the need to respec melee against dungeon bosses.

Still no overlay map and console UI on PC. Not sure about the font type though.

Dungeons are still the same old 3 side rooms to either kill enemies or find keys to place them on pedestals to unlock the boss room.

There is still backtracking but with the recent patch notes it seems now less annoying now that enemies follow you more aggressively, move speed buff while carrying keys and time to place keys is shorter now.

They disabled "Reset Dungeon" which means no more chain-farming of the same dungeons.
I have to admit it was stupid and looked like degen play style so i'm fine with that change.
Now players have to actually interact with the game world and choose different dungeons for leveling/farming.

Normally, I avoid these types of threads just because. But I'll chime in here on this one because I am in a mood.

I honestly don't really care about D4 as a whole. Blizzard lost me with D3 and the shit show that it was. I have 0 expectations for this game, and right now, NO desire to play it at all. Maybe, somewhere down the line, I will get it when it's on sale, but in no way, shape, or form, am I going to get it right after release. Blizzard has earned my disdain with their total lack of understanding and direction with D3.

As far as D3 went, I actually helped create some of the bots and scripts that people would use for that game. That is how much wrath and a total lack of faith in Blizzard that I had then and still hold now. All these numbers floating around about time played, critters killed, etc etc means literally nothing as far as I am concerned.

They are going to have to earn back that trust that I once had for them. Now, they are adding in MMO components to it? Just, no. Right now, even as D4 stands now, they haven't done enough yet to warrant anything from me. I have serious doubts as to their ability to figure anything out and make it work well. They have shown that they can't.

"

鬼殺し wrote:

Oh did you get the email detailing your weekend stats? That was a nice touch.

I did. 51k kills, 60 hours, and 108 story quests later...it went by so fast lol

Nice. I was a cruisy 45 hours. 32 deaths. 60 something quests. 18 dungeons -- across five characters, I had no idea I had done that much.

It's an interestingly familiar experience though -- Sacred 2 likely had that many quests per "act" and was also distinctly open world with some set aside interiors.

It also eventually got mounts.

I still don't know if I will approach DIV as an ARPG. Then again, what does that even mean now? I play every ARPG differently, reacting to their particular demands as a result of said games appealing to me for some other reason. I think that is why I kept bouncing off LE -- its appeal is almost exclusively PoE-derived. DIV gives me this huge, detailed world to explore, simple but effective combat, slick production values and yet is not an MMO or CRPG -- two genres I just don't have the time or energy to indulge fully.

And that is really what Blizzard do. They provide casual-friendly versions of games and genres that traditionally demand a lot of effort and focus. Easy to learn, probably not worth mastering.

Something a lot of ARPG fans may have forgotten: Diablo was never complicated. Not even the revered D2 has that much in the way of inherently deep systems. Even D2 had mainstream appeal. D1 was probably the deepest for its time -- Gauntlet with hefty gear options and distinct spells -- and D2 innovated the skill tree for ARPGs, but neither seemed to rely on that for appeal. D3...well, it got there. And DIV seems to have learned from a lot of D3's mistakes. Interesting then to see what it carries forward from D3: stuff like up arrow good remains, so like or not it probably improved the Diablo experience for some players without ruining it for others. A nice bit of streamlining handy early on but likely useless once you start to care about build.

Which is how Diablo has always been. It wasn't the gear of D1 that pulled me in -- it was the atmosphere and the gameplay. D2 expanded on both. D3 failed for me because it lost all of that AND embraced its arcade like feel far too much. And DIV appeals again for much the same reason as D1 and D2.

DIV would probably flop if it were made to satisfy Exiles. Their priorities are too well calibrated by PoE's disinterest in being an enjoyable game in and of itself. At no point in the DIV beta did I think, huh they copied this from PoE. And that is an eminently good thing. Copied from FFXIV or GW2? Sure -- better than copying from their own ailing MMO (D3 did that, after all).

PoE has nothing to offer DIV (other than players, lol). Conversely, what we have seen of 4.0 smacks of a certain familiar inclination towards more dynamic, cinematic game interaction. It really does look like PoE and D3 had a baby and inherited the best traits of both. (The Game Which Shall Not Be Named is without doubt a grotesque attempt at copying both with the blessing of neither.)

June is less interesting than July now. June seems pretty solid. Blizzard are almost boringly confident. July though? I am ready to be deeply impressed by GGG's history of miracle reveals -- both 2.0 and 3.0 were mind-blowing in how they revolutionised PoE at the time. Unlike either of those, 4.0 has had a lot of hype and made a lot of promises. A dangerous place for a dev to occupy.

Just ask Sean Murray of No Man's Sky. And then look at how he operates now, after years of hypeless game improvements: he tweets an emoji mere days before a substantial update and the community eats that shit up. He promises nothing and delivers something seemingly out of nowhere regularly and everyone's happy. An enviable position -- but good lord did he have to go through hell to get there.

I always figured that is where Chris would end up. Set up PoE so that it delivers realistic content on time and he could just be the Wizard behind the curtain. He seemed more than capable of that. Maybe to some that is what he is. But surely not here and seemingly not on the sub anymore either.

Then again, I never figured selling out to Tencent was part of that plan. But if anything, I would think that doing so should position him even better to become a beloved figurehead, able to send his player base into a frenzy with a mere word or two now and then. Instead I see players saying HE is the problem with PoE -- that is fucking insane. That's like saying Bruce Wayne is what is wrong with Wayne Industries. A good thing it's not called Wilson Games then, huh?

I have no idea who the devs of DIV are and I very much look forward to never needing to know or care. Jay Wilson was more than enough of that carry-on for one lifetime.

I agree that it doesn't really matter how D4 is approached in terms of the player, whether its MMO, ARPG, or some unexpected spawn of those parents to whatever D4 hybrid it will be.

It will matter however in development scope if it begins to take some form of dedicated roles (the holy trinity of Tank, Healer, DPS), which I think they shouldn't do. I don't expect it either realistically, but in D2 & D3 there were synergistic groups which is fine. Group play is great in Diablo.

D4 is also unapologetic in what it is, and thats refreshing. Not trying to be PoE, and embracing accessibility and ease of play (for any level of gamer really). Hell they even put their foot down on the map overlay. Why spend years and countless millions on the superb game world, only to have people playing with a 2D mockup blocking the screen. I actually appreciate this. It will take some getting used to, but in the end I think the presentation will be better for it.

Also, as discussed previously, making small improvements, even before launch, buys you some player trust and confidence. Changing the font for example, and moving the chat box to the left (thank fuck ha!), while minor in scope, mean something transactionally in terms of the dev/player dynamic. It's a good start and good optics.

June is great for games, mostly FFXVI and D4, but you are right about the intriguing situation in July and Exilecon. It could range wildly from an outright disaster, to setting the stage for epic showdowns with PoE2 and D4 seasons and leagues for the next 10 years. I honestly don't know what to expect, other than I'm absolutely positive the PoE2 beta will be a hot mess on the tech side. (Still unclear about PoE1 and Console integration as well. Seems problematic)

Crossbow to head, I'd say the Holy Trinity won't even be a consideration for DIV simply because it hasn't been a consideration for ages. FFXIV has it because for all of its expansions and updates, FFXIV is stuck in the past, happily: a super successful, premium-priced buy to play game with a hefty monthly subscription and a slew of paid microtransactions people buy, In 2023. That's bonkers, that is. Hell, FFXIV still operates under an illusion of limited digital real estate -- they make it hard to get a house AND will demolish your house if you don't log in regularly. It's...bullshit all the way down. And, of course, the entire combat system is based around the antiquated Holy Trinity, with the proviso that Healers are expected to also contribute to the damage output and damage dealers are expected to take care of themselves. The only saving grace is any one character can fill any of the three roles just by switching weapons. Technically.

GW2, on the other hand, scrapped the Holy Trinity pretty much from the start (11 years ago now!), opting instead to give every class tools beyond a single role. They all get self-heals; they can all deal a chunk of damage; they all get some way of buffing other players. The multiplayer aspect is less about the party as a coherent whole and more about contribution towards a goal as a single unit of wider utility. Certain classes might heal better than others and certain others might output more raw damage, but each is still ultimately self-sustaining.

DIV is just like this, at least so far. It sustains the Diablo legacy in this respect. Play solo and you are an ARPG character to the core. Play multi, and the world beefs itself against your group. Encounter content designed purely for multiplayer and you can rest assured it will not be impossible unless you bring a certain class or build type. In other words, it's how many you bring, not who or what. And how competent each individual is at balancing damage output and sustainability. The fact that someone managed to solo the act 1 world boss is probably something Blizzard have thought long and hard about since.

Whoever put the chat box on the right was not of this world and should be immediately placed under observation.

"

Aragorn14 wrote:

in no way, shape, or form, am I going to get it right after release. Blizzard has earned my disdain with their total lack of understanding and direction with D3.

Your wrath? Bro, Blizzard are straight-up hoping you don’t buy DIV. It’s more than a little self-indulgent to have engaged in that shit and think your absence will be a cause for regret.

"

Aragorn14 wrote:

As far as D3 went, I actually helped create some of the bots and scripts that people would use for that game.

I have no illusions at all. I know I won't be missed. And I don't care. They will still sell millions of copies. Makes no difference to them if I am there or not. It makes a difference to me.