[3.25] ❄️ Icicle Mines Deadeye ❄️ Cheap / League Starter / Fast Mapper / 1st Day T16

"

petur03 wrote:

So, I'm currently leveling with this build. In POB when you change the tree from lvl 37 (Act 4) to lvl 50 (Act 7), it requires 17 respec points, and when going to the next level it requires 50+ respec points.

Orb of regret is currently 1c each. How am I supposed to afford that early game?

Am I missing something here?

37 -> 50: 5 nodes
50 -> 64: 7 nodes


You will have them from quests, you don't have to use regret orbs.

"

GimmeZeLoot wrote:

"

About Nimis itself: in my experience map clear is way way better with the +1 chain from Snakepit, and since icicle projectiles expire at max range instead of returning, it means that the projectiles only return when they collide with a wall. Nearly every pinnacle or endgame boss fight is in an arena with no walls so Nimis seems completely useless, unless I'm missing something.

Nimis just doubles your damage for a ring slot, its busted. But you need at least 1 pierce for projectile to hit twice. Previous league i farmed sanctum and oneshotted Lycia with -%dmg +%enemy life all day long with exactly nimis, with 23 mines full preload without needing to throw more mines. I didnt notice any item giving you raw double damage stronger than Nimis. Thats just my opinion.

Maybe ggg changed how it works now, but i have to see it by myself.

Like I said, it's only a damage increase if there are walls around. Doesn't matter if you have pierce if there are no walls; the projectiles expire instead of returning at max distance. See also Jungroan's demo where the projectiles are not returning at all because there are no walls:
https://youtu.be/zSEUpXnaKW8?t=378

Sanctum is the only place I see it being good at since there are so many walls around, but the majority of Uber bosses etc are in arenas with no walls whatsoever.

"

99prosorc wrote:

37 -> 50: 5 nodes
50 -> 64: 7 nodes


You will have them from quests, you don't have to use regret orbs.

Oh, I'm an idiot.

I thought I had to remove the entire tree to get rid of the intermediate node, but I can just path around it first, and then remove it.

Thanks.

"

Like I said, it's only a damage increase if there are walls around. Doesn't matter if you have pierce if there are no walls; the projectiles expire instead of returning at max distance. See also Jungroan's demo where the projectiles are not returning at all because there are no walls:
https://youtu.be/zSEUpXnaKW8?t=378

Sanctum is the only place I see it being good at since there are so many walls around, but the majority of Uber bosses etc are in arenas with no walls whatsoever.

It have nothing with the walls, watch my vid from previous league
youtube.com/watch?v=N10znxbJsTI&ab_channel=AkDoza
Every projectile returned ALWAYS no matter the circumstances not only in sanctum, but everywhere, in maps, etc.

As i said it seems very strange to me, but i still dont have nimis yet, have to finish mageblood first. After this i will investigate whats the problem.

Also my suggestion would be your projectile chain, that MAYBE bricks the return, but im not sure about this. I played with pierce and everything worked properly.

"

GimmeZeLoot wrote:

"

Like I said, it's only a damage increase if there are walls around. Doesn't matter if you have pierce if there are no walls; the projectiles expire instead of returning at max distance. See also Jungroan's demo where the projectiles are not returning at all because there are no walls:
https://youtu.be/zSEUpXnaKW8?t=378

Sanctum is the only place I see it being good at since there are so many walls around, but the majority of Uber bosses etc are in arenas with no walls whatsoever.

It have nothing with the walls, watch my vid from previous league
youtube.com/watch?v=N10znxbJsTI&ab_channel=AkDoza
Every projectile returned ALWAYS no matter the circumstances not only in sanctum, but everywhere, in maps, etc.

As i said it seems very strange to me, but i still dont have nimis yet, have to finish mageblood first. After this i will investigate whats the problem.

Also my suggestion would be your projectile chain, that MAYBE bricks the return, but im not sure about this. I played with pierce and everything worked properly.

Ah, thank you for that video. It helped me find out that the issue had to do with projectile speed. I only have 38% projectile speed by default so I guess my projectiles expire before they reach max distance to be able to return.

Made this clip to show the difference with 120% proj speed:
https://streamable.com/gecwd2
Even here, most projectiles return, but some don't. Maybe each projectile has a variable duration or something?

Not sure what the actual fix would be for this build.. maybe using a wand instead of a sceptre, and anointing Longshot or Fury Bolts?

"

Ah, thank you for that video. It helped me find out that the issue had to do with projectile speed. I only have 38% projectile speed by default so I guess my projectiles expire before they reach max distance to be able to return.

Not sure what the actual fix would be.. maybe using a wand instead of a sceptre, and anointing Longshot or Fury Bolts?

Just try to link icicle with faster projectiles and see if it helps. In the vid i had around 150 proj speed if i remember correctly, but im still not sure if this is the case.

Edit: watched the clip, works much better now, maybe really proj speed is the case, but what is the breakpoint for that?

I am using Repeater/Aerodynamics medium cluster for proj speed/pierce exactly. Previous league i had 2 of these, but with disappearing of alt quality support gems now i barely have points for 1 cluster.

Thats why i said nimis doubles your damage with at least 1 pierce, hope it makes sense now.

EDIT:

Also there is a gem called Returning Projectiles, it works with projectiles no matter proj speed (just tested this with my 90% proj speed at the moment). Nimis should work the same.

Ok, I did some more testing with 50%, 131% and 190% proj speed.
https://streamable.com/h7ho82

Seems like with 131% proj speed most if not all projectiles travel back to my feet, and with 190%, they all return and pass through me.

Also tested with 107% proj speed that I forgot to include in this clip, but only 1/3 to half of the projectiles seemed to return.

Maybe the sweet spot is around 130-150% then.

"

Thats why i said nimis doubles your damage with at least 1 pierce, hope it makes sense now.

I can absolutely see that now, just a shame it doesn't work with my current setup.

"

Also there is a gem called Returning Projectiles, it works with projectiles no matter proj speed (just tested this with my 90% proj speed at the moment). Nimis should work the same.

Returning Projectiles Support seems to work the exact same way as Nimis from what I can see from testing both.

"

Maybe the sweet spot is around 130-150% then.

"

just a shame it doesn't work with my current setup.

Thank you for testing, thats very useful info. I have no idea how to get at least 130-150 proj speed, since alt quality support gems do not exist anymore, and we didnt receive anything to replace those gems.

"

GimmeZeLoot wrote:

"

Maybe the sweet spot is around 130-150% then.

"

just a shame it doesn't work with my current setup.

Thank you for testing, thats very useful info. I have no idea how to get at least 130-150 proj speed, since alt quality support gems do not exist anymore, and we didnt receive anything to replace those gems.

20% passive tree: Ballistics
46% wand
40% gloomfang (or less % with a different amulet)
30% anoint
30% cluster (also has +1 pierce), it's a medium proj dmg cluster with aerodynamics + streamlined

x 1.15 proj speed mastery

sorry for the stupid question, but how do we not die with the rathpit shield equipped.
I am permanent on low health and get one shotted. Or is that the point that we are a glass cannon and kill everything off screen but if yes what is the point in stacking spell surpression or life?!
And also I guess we cant do most bosses?

Thanks for help!