[3.25] Ice Dancing Queen - Icestorm/Cyclone/CI - Viable For Everything

Thanks for the update!

-i’ll look into watchers eye as soon as im done with the rings

-by the way does hatred provide more dps than aspect of the spider?if correct me if im wrong increases to damage taken has higher multiplier right?

"

wenyao wrote:

Thanks for the update!

-i’ll look into watchers eye as soon as im done with the rings

-by the way does hatred provide more dps than aspect of the spider?if correct me if im wrong increases to damage taken has higher multiplier right?

Increased damage taken is more valuable than increased damage, because they apply separately and you have less sources of increased damage taken.

For example, going from 200% incr dmg to 250% incr dmg will net you 25% more dmg. However, if you go from 100% dmg taken to 150% dmg taken, you get a whole 50% more dmg. Each type multiply with the other instead of adding.

However, Hatred is a source of more dmg. More is always multiplicative with any other source. As such, when Hatred says "20% more dmg", you get the full 20% regardless of your sources of increased damage.

Add to that the bonuses you can get from a Watcher's Eye (Hatred enables dps upgrades) and you should have 25% more. Aspect gives around 15%, a little less if running Punishment (who's also a source of incr dmg taken). Hatred is a substantial dps upgrade, but it's a 50% reservation aura, which requires more ressources into reservation efficiency.

Enjoying this build, currently done setting up the basics.

Have a hard time determining my damage output though. I see an avg hit of 130k but I don't know how it interacts with casting time, etc. Mapping still feels really slow though. Is there any way to determine DPS in regular millions?

https://pobb.in/aq6C2t4XZjZO

Am I right in following the upgrades below first to get to something decent? E.g.: get hatred/aspect, then unnerve and then all gems upgraded?

"

WinterHiko wrote:

"

Esgarrouth wrote:

Hello, I'm playing this build for the first time this league and I love it. Very high survivability but I feel like my damage is a bit lacking. I'm at 2.1k int atm and not really sure what to do next. Any help would be appreciated.

https://pastebin.com/6fnmhN9W

Here are a couple of things you could do :

No budget :

- Change your reservation mastery from +aura effect to +dmg per aura. It's going to remove 132 ES, but give you 1.7% dmg.

- Add in a second curse. Punishment or Elemental Weakness are the usual choice. It's going to make a big difference.

- The three points you put into the top right leech nodes are not very useful. You already have a ton of leech, so the points could be better used elsewhere. As a comparison, it gives you 262 max ES/sec, while one point into Ghost Reaver gives you 2000.

Low-mid budget :

- Try to fit in Hatred or Aspect of the Spider. There's some discussion earlier about the different options. Aspect will give around 15% increased damage taken and Hatred about 20% more cold damage. You might need to get Enlighten and a Charisma annoint.

- Get Unnerve on hit on your gloves instead of +max cold res. It makes a big difference in DPS (10% increased damage taken, so 8-10% more damage).

- Get your Awakened and alternate quality gems. It makes a big difference for a few div.

- Change Frost Bomb to Anomalous Wave of Conviction. It makes it easier to apply exposure.

- Your Watcher's Eye is very defensive. you could (or not, depends on your preference) change it to something more offensive, especially if you fit in Hatred (and open up flat cold damage or cold res penetration).

- You can switch Steelwood Stance for Mystic Talents. You lose some defenses, but get 5.3% more damage.

High budget :

- Your body armour could benefit from an upgrade. Try to get one with +%int and craft on it +6%attr. Adding 16% increased intelligence to your current build is 200 intelligence and 20% more damage.

- Get two Forbidden jewels with Opportunistic.

- You could get Synthesized rings (they can go up to 7% int on the implicit with 20% quality and get +60-70 flat int instead of the 6% and +28 of Heup of All).

- You can get Enlighten lvl4 and fit in Hatred without the Charisma annoint and allocate Mystic Talents instead.

- You can get a +10% intelligence helmet instead of +8%.



All of this should provide a big boost in damage. Hope that helps!

About your build :

These are all good steps. I'd add a couple of low- to mid-budget suggestions.

- I see you put one more point into the Whispers of Doom nodes to get some curse effect and duration. I'm not sure it's worth the extra skill point. The curse effect gives you 1.6% more DPS, for example, while a node like Trickery would give you 3.1% and a variety of other effects. Curse duration is not worth the point either, as we apply it via a lvl 1 CWDT, so quite often.

- Your cluster jewels could be changed to CttC/Blanketed Snow. It's a bit costly, but it's a good upgrade in DPS.

- I see you put a point in a minor cluster node that doesn't lead to anything. It seems to be to help with your resistances. I'd suggest allocating two points towards Practical application (in the middle). It gives you 13% to all resistances, stun protection while casting and some strength and dex, which will help with stat requirements. You could also invest in a good corrupted Heup of all (+25-28% allres).

- A conversion jewel in the middle-right jewel node (currently unnalocated) would give you 4-5% more dps and some more ES for only 1-3C.

- The staff mastery for more defenses is really, really good. You should take it as soon as you can. It would give you 300 ES, 800 EV and the usual almost 3% more damage from Polymath.

- Make some room for a Tranquility annoint as soon as possible. Changing Wisdom of the Glade to Tranquility would give you a wooping 16% more damage instantly. It's a bit more costly but worth it.

You'll see that this build is building off of each part. The more you invest, the more returns you'll get. Your DPS is getting there. You got the basics, like you said, and now you're getting the good stuff. You'll soon have double the DPS and mapping will feel a lot faster. You're on the right track!




About calculating total DPS :

This build is a bit weird, in that casts of the spell don't deal damage. They summon a storm, which summons projectiles, and those projectiles deal damage. As such, it's very difficult to precisely know how much DPS we're doing, because the only certain element is the damage per ice shard (which is the average hit on PoB).

There was a discussion in the Scion version's thread where it was suggested, after some calculations, that the top DPS (with the maximum of 5 storms) would be around 40 times average hit. It's not realistic against moving enemies, though, and requires ramping up. I'd say 8-10 times average hit might be a good estimate, as it means around 2 storms active on a given monster.

Once your mapping staff is around 200k average hit, you'll be zooming through maps. Once your bossing staff is around 250k-300k, you'll be able to do all pinnacle bosses. But it varies. You'll feel the difference once it goes up.

Wow thanks for the extended reply!

There's some things I knew of course, like the empty slot, but really detailed feedback thanks!

I invested a bit more than recommended elsewhere to start the build off, I think most upgrades will hurt a bit, but this will give me 2 lists to work off first :)

Hoping to push this towards some uber bosses in the end, so willing to invest a lot if necessary :)

Here's a quick commentary on my experience with the crit versus non-crit build.

Basically, the crit build (with the same gear, and measured for me) is about 80% more dps, and due to 3.5k less ES and 40% less spell block, I would say I die 80% more often.

Unlike last league's non-crit build, where I did not die at all from level 90 to 98 (except to maven but that's my problem not the build's), I have gotten unexpectedly one-shot in a few cases, to the point where I have not been able to level up past 95.

In other words, the crit build feels just like the Scion build used to feel. I would have the same issue of hitting a levelling wall around 95 with that.

The crit build has been fun to play, and thanks a lot to whiterockxx for his build and his crafting suggestions for a killer chest for the build (which, note, I have yet to make! Making that will boost my ES by 12% and also bumps my dps. So I should do it! Just don't want to deal with the pain of 6Ling it at the moment...)

I've played all iterations of this build (Scion, Witch, and the last couple of leagues, Shadow) and the Trickster is just sick. This league I am tankier than I've ever been dealing heaps of damage. I've socketed all 4 atlas jewels, which I've never done before, beat Sirus deathless, almost beat Maven deathless, and beat Uber Elder. EASILY. I just go around raining icy destruction everywhere, it's fantastic. And from 90 on I've died just a couple of times. I'm at 97 now and thinking of making a push for my first 100 character. Blasting maps is effortless and fun.

This build does it all, is speedy, tanky and has a supremely relaxing play style. Kelvynn has done us cyclone maniacs a tremendous service. The highlight of my league was buying a top tier amulet from him lol. I know it's his castoff but I am spinning to win like nobody's business.

I just saw you all guys use hatred while in the PoBs there is Discipline, Clarity, Purity of Elements and Aspect of the Spider.

It's really worth to pass on clarity and aspect for the hatred aura?

"

Asag wrote:

I just saw you all guys use hatred while in the PoBs there is Discipline, Clarity, Purity of Elements and Aspect of the Spider.

It's really worth to pass on clarity and aspect for the hatred aura?

It requires a bit of investement, but Hatred is 20% more damage, plus it opens up nice damage rolls on the Watcher's Eye. So yes, it is worth it.

Concerning Aspect of the Spider : it's nice nice 15% increased damage taken, which is almost 15% more damage. It's a bit less than Hatred, but you get 15% less reservation cost. It also requires an affix instead of a gem slot.

However, you need Enlighten 3 and Charisma annoint (or Enlighten 4 if you're rich) to run Hatred with the rest.

The other possiblity is to get a small cluster with reservation efficiency and a notable that helps with the reservation of Discipline (they're a couple of chaos). It requires two skill points, but going from 15% more to 20% more is around 2.5% DPS per point, which is low but not terrible, and that's only if you don't use a Watcher's Eye with Hatred mods, in which case it becomes a good budget use of two skill points while you wait for your annoint and Enlighten.

Concerning Clarity : Once you have enough mana, the nodes already allocated on the tree should be quite anough without the regen from Clarity. it depends on how high is your intelligence. You can also slowly downgrade Clarity to see at which level you have enough regen while having the smallest reservation possible.

"

WinterHiko wrote:

Concerning Clarity : Once you have enough mana, the nodes already allocated on the tree should be quite anough without the regen from Clarity. it depends on how high is your intelligence. You can also slowly downgrade Clarity to see at which level you have enough regen while having the smallest reservation possible.

If going the hatred route I'd recommend keeping clarity even if only level 1. A watcher's eye with added cold, cold pen, or %inc cold damage while affected by hatred plus the mana as es clarity mod are only 2div. With the amount of mana we have that's an easy 1k plus energy shield.