Less than 10,000 people play single player ARPG's. 1.4 million people just tested Lost Ark

And? Some games have more players than others? Is this always what you base what you want to play on? I sure as hell don't. I tried Lost Ark, didn't like. Doesn't matter how many play it if I don't like.

I loved Last Epoch when I played it. I'm very excited for its full release. Not sure what's your beef with it. It's literally a game in EA that costs $30 to try. It's indie, from a new developer, on Unity.

In fact, aside from PoE, a lot of these games have a buy price. Lost Ark and DI are free to play. I don't think you understand how many jumpers some of these games have. That go from game to game to game, whatever is the shiniest thing on the horizon. I don't care for those people. I care even less for the attention of streamers. Both of these groups are willing to burn a community to the ground for some clout.

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It's not a successful genre.

Weird, last I checked Crate made enough money off of Grim Dawn they're not hurting and happily working on Final Frontier. What exactly is your definition of successful?

What is it with people who are so in love with the economy machine that they think they need to do a corporation's work for them? Trust me, they don't need it, they have their own professionals working around the clock to determine how to squeeze the last penny out of their customers.

Ye I suppose it's just a thread addressing population numbers. Maybe from someone replying with " audience " mentions from a previous thread.

As I wanted to avoid feature debates with this thread. Doesn't mean Last Epoch is a bad game I won't try. I'll try it maybe eventually.

Numbers aren't everything, you don't need to sell out. Tho these aren't numbers of people actively enjoying the mmo arpg genre. These are numbers of games that tanked & now the playerbase has nothing to play.

& also the mmo streamers have nothing to review.

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RuneLuthien wrote:

It's fine to be a niche crowd, tho admit your a niche crowd & stop acting like you know anything about the rest of the pc market.

Most of us play more then PoE (im currently on Elden Ring and Elex2 for example) you know? We also happen to have internet. You are not special and you are not as smart as you think you are.

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kuciol wrote:

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RuneLuthien wrote:

It's fine to be a niche crowd, tho admit your a niche crowd & stop acting like you know anything about the rest of the pc market.

Most of us play more then PoE (im currently on Elden Ring and Elex2 for example) you know? We also happen to have internet. You are not special and you are not as smart as you think you are.

You'd be surprised how many people have told me they never played WoW on this forum. Which is fine. Tho still meh.

Elden Ring is open world, which is better than atlas portals for a endgame. Story Open Zoned Endgame.

Also Elden Ring is dropping player numbers too due to reviewers saying the game has no real repeatability & that other dark souls games had even better replayablity. So there's another population of the latest title with nothing to play. How many more thousands to add to the list.

You don't have to rebuild this game just to rival Lost Ark, if you played Lost Ark you would know. Even Lost Ark lacked party features, was mostly camping town for weekly dungeon runs. Which is the lamest way to go about party gameplay. They didn't have open zones, they had tons of lanes everywhere. PVE monsters didn't give exp. Tiny skill tree. PVP arena had zero rewards & only 1 map. You only had 8 skills out of like 19 skills. Tho it seemed like you had 8 skills out of 14. As some are passive buffs anyways. Lost Ark sucked. No other way to say. I wrote about pvp unfairness too. So P2W with PVP unfairness & no real PVE outside timed events. Tho no mobb exp. LA was lame. Nobody partied with anyone for sure for the first 50 lvls. Or for the first 8 alts to lvl 50, not a single friend met or party for most people. For Lost Ark. Just tons of npcs to walk or run to.

Problem with making MMO style games with huge multiplayer content is that you have to balance them.

You can't balance a game like PoE.

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RuneLuthien wrote:

You don't have to rebuild this game just to rival Lost Ark, if you played Lost Ark you would know that. Even Lost Ark lacked party features, was mostly camping town for weekly dungeon runs. Which is the lamest way to go about party gameplay. They didn't have open zones, they had tons of lanes everywhere. PVE monsters didn't give exp. PVP arena had zero rewards & only 1 map. You only had 8 skills out of like 19 skills. Tho it seemed like you had 8 skills out of 14. As some are passive buffs anyways. Lost Ark sucked. No other way to say. I wrote about pvp unfairness too. So P2W with PVP unfairness & no real PVE outside timed events. Tho no mobb exp. LA was lame. Nobody partied with anyone for sure for the first 50 lvls. Or for the first 8 alts to lvl 50, not a single friend met or party for most people. For Lost Ark. Just tons of npcs to walk or run to.

Dude FFS, engine itself doesnt work for MMO. Passive tree doesnt wok for MMO, skill gems do not work for MMO, items do not work for MMO. 1 build can do 100k dmg and the same build with better items will do 100mil dmg. To many variables to have good pvp, engine cant support open world, performance is already a problem with 4 people in party on top of it most current players wouldnt play it as MMO. PoE will never be MMO. End of story.

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Deadandlivin wrote:

Problem with making MMO style games with huge multiplayer content is that you have to balance them.

You can't balance a game like PoE.

Meanwhile you guys are telling me the main problem with POE is the balance. The main gripe the Vet's have. Is the balance.

Yes they would have more to balance, tho would it help the balance of everything else anyways? Yes.

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RuneLuthien wrote:

Meanwhile you guys are telling me the main problem with POE is the balance. The main gripe the Vet's have. Is the balance.

Yes they would have more to balance, tho would it help the balance of everything else anyways? Yes.

No. PoE is simply impossible to balance. Games with 6 classes have problems to balance them. As i said befor a build can do 100k dps and 100mil dps depending on items they use. You want MMO with PVP? You need to remove most of freedom players have. There is no way around it.

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kuciol wrote:

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RuneLuthien wrote:

You don't have to rebuild this game just to rival Lost Ark, if you played Lost Ark you would know that. Even Lost Ark lacked party features, was mostly camping town for weekly dungeon runs. Which is the lamest way to go about party gameplay. They didn't have open zones, they had tons of lanes everywhere. PVE monsters didn't give exp. PVP arena had zero rewards & only 1 map. You only had 8 skills out of like 19 skills. Tho it seemed like you had 8 skills out of 14. As some are passive buffs anyways. Lost Ark sucked. No other way to say. I wrote about pvp unfairness too. So P2W with PVP unfairness & no real PVE outside timed events. Tho no mobb exp. LA was lame. Nobody partied with anyone for sure for the first 50 lvls. Or for the first 8 alts to lvl 50, not a single friend met or party for most people. For Lost Ark. Just tons of npcs to walk or run to.

Dude FFS, engine itself doesnt work for MMO. Passive tree doesnt wok for MMO, skill gems do not work for MMO, items do not work for MMO. 1 build can do 100k dmg and the same build with better items will do 100mil dmg. To many variables to have good pvp, engine cant support open world, performance is already a problem with 4 people in party on top of it most current players wouldnt play it as MMO. PoE will never be MMO. End of story.

- I'm pretty sure if their able to host those old 100 player dota style pvp matches. The " Royals " while other people are playing the Regular PVE zones. The engine may handle 100 player towns too. Or 20 player zones. jus fine

- Passive tree works like any other rpg.

- Items work like any other rpg. Figure it out.

- 1 build that is spammed with your thumb that you put all your thought into boosting 1 skill only. THAT TREND IS DEAD & I dislike this trend. Make that trend some niche nerds build idea & get rid of it from mainstream POE. It's 4 to 10 skills per game. Even if I don't play this game, I won't support 1 skill button basher builds. Ever. In any game, that I play or don't play. It's fine as some extra bonus idea if it as the future is a rarer build idea to boost 1 skill only. & for those saying " that's the poe way " I'd rather not debate old bad themes. Was never a good theme. It just stayed around as it was easier to stack & now yall wondering why bosses also 1 hit you. No wonder MAYBE the boss is stacking all its boosts to 1 skill only too & THUMB hitting it like a mobile phone game & titling that a ARPG. ROLEPLAY game. Strategy too hopefully. So you have a bigger skill tree than Diablo 2, tho you don't have more variaty of utility belt abilties than D2 yet. Maybe POE 2 spear to dodge ratio & some other new ailments or healer gems may help with the lack of combos POE has. For Active Gems. So pardon me if I don't give zero hoots about your uber dps 100k to 9999 billion dps builds. Also many of your Vet's don't even like elitist gem builds; they want all the underleveled lesser dps skills on equal playing fields. So usually if you got a disparity of dps that gem is op & needs the nerf hit.

- Dragons Nest had good pvp & better dodges & was 100000% a ARPG, didn't even have open zones. WAS 10000% near enough to POE. (Died from being p2w) Tho still. That game has better guild verse guild, even the mobile phone version of Dragon's Nest has better duels, pvp, dodges, rapid arenas, rewards, castles, guild rewards. So a mobile phone game that has exact non open zone ARPG style camera angle fighting; that engine? Is able to handle all that. Why not POE. Why does it trend there. Maybe yall ran off some of your audience tbh. With Pitchforks. Less players, less updates.

- Ye 4 people of the party have a problem with the Zoomer being a zoomer. Just delete the zoomer from existence & parties get to exist fine forever. Or leave the zoomer & everyone leaves the party, dies, & gets sea sickness trying to maintain pace. You got zoomer & stupid autobombers before regular healer gems every rpg has had since Playstation 1?? Too much passivity buff based design. PATH OF PASSIVITY. Path of Passive Buffs. I stated that Lost Ark having 8 skills isn't enough. The lowest a rpg game should have for active skills is 12 for 2022. No less than 12. Than 12 is the base. Even for ARPG style genre with less players per realm. 12. 1 to 4 active skills is a mobile phone game. & 8 skills like Lost Ark is somewhere between a mobile phone game & full rpg. Tho POE gets the pass from D2 standards or its extensive knowledge base. Tho overall still POE 2 ye lvl 60 to 120 (20 more boost lvls & lvl 100 gets easier to attain) should aim for more active gems. & autobombers are deleted. & necros summoning skills require some sort of strategy instead of just a passive mobb hitting stuff. Solved.

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RuneLuthien wrote:

- I'm pretty sure if their able to host those old 100 player dota style pvp
matches. The " Royals " while other people are playing the Regular PVE zones. The engine may handle 100 player towns too. Or 20 player zones. jus fine

And here it shows how little you know. PvP matches are low level and dont have 1000 monsters on map. Very little is happening in there.

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RuneLuthien wrote:

- Passive tree works like any other rpg.

- Items work like any other rpg. Figure it out.

Both wrong. If you dont even know that then further discussion is pointless since you know to little about games in general not only PoE.

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RuneLuthien wrote:

- Ye 4 people of the party have a problem with the Zoomer being a zoomer. Just delete the zoomer from existence & parties get to exist fine forever.

Yea remove the possiblities, not gonna happen.