👻3.20👻 Kay's Summoner💥SRS Bomber💀Poison SRS💀Melee SRS🕷️Spiders💀Skeleton Mages

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Deadandlivin wrote:

Got any PoBs I could tinker with? :)

Sure: https://pastebin.com/JYibhbmH

Can choose passive tree and skill gems.




Don't ask why I took those minion defence nodes. Ancient Skull AW is a bit painful w/o them.

Also, be sure to check Unholy Might for minions as necro, and Intimidate as guardian.

Triad grips added, can choose them in items.

Finally, in physical/impale i'm using Brutality for Guardian and Ruthless for Necro. Have to switch them manually too.

Edit: Forgot to mention, in 3.19 poison damage would be doubled. Please be sure to count it properly, I used calculator on phone instead of adding it in pob xD

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monik390 wrote:

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Deadandlivin wrote:

Got any PoBs I could tinker with? :)

Sure: https://pastebin.com/JYibhbmH

Can choose passive tree and skill gems.




Don't ask why I took those minion defence nodes. Ancient Skull AW is a bit painful w/o them.

Also, be sure to check Unholy Might for minions as necro, and Intimidate as guardian.

Triad grips added, can choose them in items.

Finally, in physical/impale i'm using Brutality for Guardian and Ruthless for Necro. Have to switch them manually too.

Edit: Forgot to mention, in 3.19 poison damage would be doubled. Please be sure to count it properly, I used calculator on phone instead of adding it in pob xD

Interesting. Yeah, Guardian seems to be the best strictly for League start due to how hard dmg gets carried by Intimidate. Once you get into the midgame and you can start investing into Awakened Melee Phys for ~40 chaos to get intimidate Necro becomes stronger though.

Pretty sure the correct play is to use Plaguebringer if you're to play Necro during league start.

Unfortunately however, you can't really respecc from Guardian to Necro. If you pick Guardian you're stuck with it. It doesn't really take much for Necro to surpass Guardian in power so I'm still not convinced league starting with Guardian is the correct play. In the end it depends on how your fast you're able to gear and get into the endgame.

If you're a very slow player that will struggle to get things like Awakened Melee phys to level5 or your build has trouble getting attackspeed into the build, then Guardian probably is the correct play. If you're already are an experienced player, then starting Witch is probably the smartest way to go.

Honestly though, the differences in throughput, especially dmg is so small between both ascendencies that they're not that meaningful. Personally, I think the most important thing for a summoner leaguestarter is the 30% all res from Commander in Darkness is monumental to keep your minions alive.
Most minions only have a base resist of 40% and you want to get it up to 75%(83% with mastery) ASAP or you're gonna have to constantly resummon them.
Might not be an issue for builds with active minions like AW though since you're constantly resummoning them anyway.

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Deadandlivin wrote:

Might not be an issue for builds with active minions like AW though since you're constantly resummoning them anyway.

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monik390 wrote:

Finally, most summoner builds would be stronger on necromancer tho. It's not like there are many exceptions from that.

The only guardian approach I know which would be stronger then necro in 3.19, is the Doryani's Prototype 1 minion anything (no intimidate for necro). And that's IF necromancer gets Commander of Darkness. If not - hell no lmao.

There is a thing - Guardian isn't pure minion ascendancy, like necromancer. It's a hybrid/support. So, logically, it can't compare to necro for sure in terms of endgame damage.

But the thing is, 2 labs are just too valuable for minions on guardian. I'm not sure if you have ever built a super tanky guardian, but in this field (tankyness), it has more potential than necro.

So the point of guardian - comfortable gameplay. Some tank, some damage ez.

While necromancer is still mimaxing gorilla in the room.

There is no point going guardian for your minion army and perfect play.

But there is a point for guardian dor prot AW, bc it can take 1 more hit =)

I'm not trying to convince you about guardian being superior to necro, bc, obviously it isn't true.

I just want to tell, that taste and demands are different. Some players would enjoy guardian more.

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Deadandlivin wrote:

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50% added damage... That's not how we are scaling Mages anyhow. Assuming there are more ways to get minion level from other gear I don't think this nerf kills the build. The +3 to helment only really impacts the mirror tier helmet that slots skeletons. I cleared all content in Archnemsis fine without the helm.

Skelly mages are getting a:
- 20% dmg nerf from blanket nerf to all minions
- 25% dmg nerf to skelly mages directly
- 20% dmg nerf from Unnatural Strength nerf (Nullified if you used skellys 6-linked in chest and not a +3 15 ex minion helm)
- 10% dmg nerf due to nerf to 7-link minion helms as levels got reduced from 3 to 2.
- ~50% dmg nerf with the removal of Frenzy and Power Charges (Assuming 2 of each charge cause Mages are temporary minions and most likely won't have 3/3 charges)

If you had a modestly geared Skelly mage build with 7-link helm, +2 wand, Ashes et.c. you most likely had ~25 million dps.

If we apply all these nerfs to this ~100 ex build the results would be:
25 * 0.8 * 0.75 * 0.8 * 0.9 * 0.5 = 5.4 million dps.

So you would've gone from ~25 million dps down to 5.4 million.
5.4/25 = 0.216 -> 1 - 0.216 = 0.784 -> 78.4%

This means Mage builds using x2 Power/Frenzy monkeys and a +3 minion helm would've lost 78.4% of their damage comparing these two leagues. I didn't calculate the change on Brittle from 5% base crit to 2% base crit either, so the dps nerf would've been even larger for many mage builds utilizing Brittle eldritch mods on their boots.

I listed everything that got nerfed that I could think of, even minor, and they grasped onto that 50% gem nerf like that was the only thing outside of the blanket 25%. Thanks for spelling it all out for them.

I personally did not use skeletons in helm, I had a +3 Fleshcrafter that I double corrupted, so I did forget about the Unnatural Strength.

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Deadandlivin wrote:

Unfortunately however, you can't really respecc from Guardian to Necro. If you pick Guardian you're stuck with it. It doesn't really take much for Necro to surpass Guardian in power so I'm still not convinced league starting with Guardian is the correct play. In the end it depends on how your fast you're able to gear and get into the endgame.

I guess it really depends on someone's goal for the game.
Uber content
Pinnacle bosses
Mapping
checking out new league mechanic
SSF
just play casually
etc.

Maybe a combination of some of those too!

I think for some people, Guardian will make sense to use for the league (more casual or SSF) because it will feel good without good gear. Necro will scale better, though. Also depends on what you want to play too! eg. Melee SRS in SSF might feel better with Guardian. Bomber SRS definitely better with Necro. Occultist for spiders. Ele for golems. AW... I think both are OK (minions clear better with Guardian, but longer duration with Necro). Soulwrest necro. Not sure if skeles are worth using in 3.19. Spectres are gone. HoP/DB probably guardian?

i'm just glad i got my helmet finished except to harvest roll the mods to max them. took 43 uber lab runs to finally get the enchant



so, if i'm not mistaken, 3.19 will make it double legacy. while not perfect, it's the best craft i have done yet. i just wish it rolled something different than the 2 res mods but i'm still super happy with the outcome

for pure spectre setup

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The Wraithlord Unique Helmet no longer has Minions Regenerate 1% of Life per second, or +1000 to Spectre maximum Life. Instead, it now has "Cannot have non-Spectre Minions", and +2 to maximum number of Spectres.

1 less seletons by the aberon's boots ...

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With plenty of new itemisation opportunities, minion builds are now as rewarded for finding good items as other archetypes are. There are several new minion-focused base types that players can find and craft to improve the damage and survivability of their minions.

so tl;dr nerfed minions unless u farm item rolls that are RNG and even with the modifier likely weaker than b4?



They make it sound like minion builds arent rewarded for finding good items...

find a good item? good can trade it for a currency/item you would rather have use for at whatever point you are at in game.

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Besovskii wrote:

for pure spectre setup

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The Wraithlord Unique Helmet no longer has Minions Regenerate 1% of Life per second, or +1000 to Spectre maximum Life. Instead, it now has "Cannot have non-Spectre Minions", and +2 to maximum number of Spectres.

When i saw that i was thinking of atleas temporarily twitchingmy necro to run 7 Bararanite Preachers with 100%+ crit rate, untill i realised i cant run even AG with them.

Oh well probaply wouldn't know what to do with all the empty gem sockets anyway.

The boots that turn skele warriors into perma minions seem like they would be nice for leveling.