Last Epoch is POE Killer now

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t0lkien wrote:

Last Epoch is solid, but incredibly derivative (and I mean almost to the point of plagiarism - their core systems are slightly reworked versions of core systems from Grim Dawn and PoE). Everything about the game is either lifted from, or heavily reminiscent of another game.

For example, I loved the beautifully implemented time-switching mechanic in their Temporal Sanctum dungeon, but even while playing it suspected it had to be taken from another game because everything else was. And yep — carbon copy of time shifting from Titan Fall 2. There is literally nothing original in the game... yet. We'll see what the next couple of years bring.

Despite this, LE has hit a decent balance of fun. But it is in no way a PoE killer — as if one was needed. The best thing I can say about the game is it made me look forward to the next PoE league where I can play the pure versions of the builds they copied.

Lifting things (gameplay mechanics specifically) from another game is not an issue at all in the gaming industry if you manage to do it right.

I mean look at PoE, from identify scrolls to portal scrolls to hit/block recovery to resistance mechanics to... I don't know, inventory spacing system. Everything was lifted from D2. Does that make PoE a bad game? No lol

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hasatt0 wrote:

Lifting things (gameplay mechanics specifically) from another game is not an issue at all in the gaming industry if you manage to do it right.

I mean look at PoE, from identify scrolls to portal scrolls to hit/block recovery to resistance mechanics to... I don't know, inventory spacing system. Everything was lifted from D2. Does that make PoE a bad game? No lol

There's a difference between being influenced by/inspired by another work and emulating its style - that is the very definition of a genre, particularly in games - and copying 1:1. PoE is different to D2 stylistically and mechanically where it matters, and was even in beta. Now it's miles ahead.

I would argue LE has cut too close the bone. There is almost nothing original in the game, and every part of the game has come from somewhere else. It's obvious to anyone who has played the games it lifts from. There is even a version of Deckard Cain and Lea for goodness sake, with almost the same narrative surrounding them as the beginning of D3. If you're going to copy another game, at least copy the good parts.

It's so clear that even when I was playing the time shift dungeon and being genuinely delighted by the mechanic, I knew they had taken it from somewhere else because that was true for everything in the game. A bit of forum reading revealed the source (as I pointed out above). That's really the end of the discussion for me.

That's not to say it's a bad game. I think it's good, and fills a gap between D4 and PoE. I've enjoyed my time with it. But it is not in any way original, in ways that it needs to be to endure. I hope that changes as they continue development, and that they begin to innovate. I have my doubts, though, as it's been 5 years to this point, and the way they have copied everything in the game suggests the devs don't have their own ideas.

We'll see.

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t0lkien wrote:

I would argue LE has cut too close the bone. There is almost nothing original in the game, and every part of the game has come from somewhere else.

Reminder that poe have pokemons and towerdefence

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ShamelessWhiteknight wrote:

Reminder that poe have pokemons and towerdefence

Both of those mechanics are genres, BTW.

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ShamelessWhiteknight wrote:

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t0lkien wrote:

I would argue LE has cut too close the bone. There is almost nothing original in the game, and every part of the game has come from somewhere else.

Reminder that poe have pokemons and towerdefence

"Pokemons". Because now catching animals to slaughter them is called "pokemons". I guess our ancestors long time ago were also hunting pokemons, because pokemon invented animals.

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Aynix wrote:

"Pokemons". Because now catching animals to slaughter them is called "pokemons". I guess our ancestors long time ago were also hunting pokemons, because pokemon invented animals.

That person just joined the forum and is already trolling. My guess is that's someone's shit-talking alt or they were put on probation on their main. No way that person is arguing in good faith

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ShamelessWhiteknight wrote:

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t0lkien wrote:

I would argue LE has cut too close the bone. There is almost nothing original in the game, and every part of the game has come from somewhere else.

Reminder that poe have pokemons and towerdefence

Yes, and as was stated already, it's not so much a question whether you get inspiration from somewhere but how you work with it.
Is it just copy and paste or is it taking the basic idea of something and working with it to create something new?

I'm, btw., not saying that LE is just copying, because my knowledge of computer games is far too limited.
I've long been a huge fan of LE's skill system, for example. I have no idea if they came up with or if it was copied.
However, the implementation of "Pokemon" in PoE seems to be very different from, well, Pokemon - but I might be wrong.
The implementation of Towerdefence is also not something I've seen in other TD games, and I have tried quite a few.
The closest thing I know is "Deathtrap", where you also have a free moving character with stats and skills and gear like your character in PoE and monster portals with fixed routes for monsters and fixed places for towers.

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Mikrotherion wrote:

The closest thing I know is "Deathtrap", where you also have a free moving character with stats and skills and gear like your character in PoE and monster portals with fixed routes for monsters and fixed places for towers.

Orcs Must Die series is goated. If you like the style I wholly recommend it

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ArtCrusade wrote:

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Mikrotherion wrote:

The closest thing I know is "Deathtrap", where you also have a free moving character with stats and skills and gear like your character in PoE and monster portals with fixed routes for monsters and fixed places for towers.

Orcs Must Die series is goated. If you like the style I wholly recommend it

Too late, already played them all. Very fun games!
Thanks, for sharing, though, maybe it gets some other people interested who haven't played, yet.

The cope is we are all trying to pass the time for POE2. The reality is it probably won't be until 2025, so I don't mind going out and supporting passionate games that are fairly priced and without shameless excessive monetization.

Helldivers 2, Last Epoch, Palword are all games showing the big companies in that genre that you can't just produce trash forever, gamers will migrate and move. All the excuses of inflation, live service etc, all exposed as being cons.

You don't need to spend 200mill developing a game that takes you over 11 years to get out and then put it on sale only a few weeks after it's release. All while holding back sales numbers and using misleading player count analytics to pretend it's doing well. Guess the game!