Last Epoch is POE Killer now

I have LE purchased if it ever becomes worth playing.

I've backed LE when they were starting out. Haven't regretted I did it, seeing that many people seem to enjoy it, but for some reason, I can't really get into it.
Besides Diablo 1 and 2, PoE is the only other aRPG I've really liked. *shrugs*

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BobsynS wrote:

I dislike current PoE because of too much focus on power-creep and bloated gameplay. I do understand they need to sell stash tabs but the amount of quantity of items you see and even Need to pick up is ridiculous.

I really don´t understand how people can call PoE still bloated after all the improvements via atlas passives. You can literally block out all the "bloated" content you don´t like and get even more of the things you DO enjoy in return, that´s hell of a clever design as well as top-notch player-agency that is better than in any other game.

Getting really annoyed by statements like this at this point.

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Vennto wrote:

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BobsynS wrote:

I dislike current PoE because of too much focus on power-creep and bloated gameplay. I do understand they need to sell stash tabs but the amount of quantity of items you see and even Need to pick up is ridiculous.

I really don´t understand how people can call PoE still bloated after all the improvements via atlas passives. You can literally block out all the "bloated" content you don´t like and get even more of the things you DO enjoy in return, that´s hell of a clever design as well as top-notch player-agency that is better than in any other game.

Getting really annoyed by statements like this at this point.

POE is bloatware.

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Vennto wrote:

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BobsynS wrote:

I dislike current PoE because of too much focus on power-creep and bloated gameplay. I do understand they need to sell stash tabs but the amount of quantity of items you see and even Need to pick up is ridiculous.

I really don´t understand how people can call PoE still bloated after all the improvements via atlas passives. You can literally block out all the "bloated" content you don´t like and get even more of the things you DO enjoy in return, that´s hell of a clever design as well as top-notch player-agency that is better than in any other game.

Getting really annoyed by statements like this at this point.

The atlas passive was an incredible addition to the game. However, in order to get something out of one mechanic or another, you really need to min max that tree. I think this is fine, but as a result of all of these mechanics, maps - that were the end-game staple of PoE - are now basically a throwaway proxy for whatever mechanic you want to specialize in. Maps went through numerous manifestos over the years; how important they are etc etc. Now the game transformed where maps are just there to proc the mechanic or 2 you want to focus on, and from this perspective players can see bloat - especially when most of the mechanics are not at the original power or capability. A lot of players just want to blast maps, but loot was effectively removed from mobs in maps and moved to said mechanics. The choice of just blasting maps was removed - if you will.

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Vennto wrote:

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BobsynS wrote:

I dislike current PoE because of too much focus on power-creep and bloated gameplay. I do understand they need to sell stash tabs but the amount of quantity of items you see and even Need to pick up is ridiculous.

I really don´t understand how people can call PoE still bloated after all the improvements via atlas passives. You can literally block out all the "bloated" content you don´t like and get even more of the things you DO enjoy in return, that´s hell of a clever design as well as top-notch player-agency that is better than in any other game.

Getting really annoyed by statements like this at this point.

You have got to be joking, right? PoE has the most bloat of any game I have ever played, and I'm in my mid 40s. On what planet did you think people were talking about bloat in maps? It has nothing to do with that. It's that to understand and know the game efficiently it takes hundreds and probably more like thousand of hours to memorize the crafting systems, and the absurd amount of "word definitions" in the skill tree, and how all these mechanics work with each other, and a hole multitude of 3rd party web sites with full blown calculating tools.

A new players could be lost for years in this game.

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Valkaneer wrote:

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Vennto wrote:

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BobsynS wrote:

I dislike current PoE because of too much focus on power-creep and bloated gameplay. I do understand they need to sell stash tabs but the amount of quantity of items you see and even Need to pick up is ridiculous.

I really don´t understand how people can call PoE still bloated after all the improvements via atlas passives. You can literally block out all the "bloated" content you don´t like and get even more of the things you DO enjoy in return, that´s hell of a clever design as well as top-notch player-agency that is better than in any other game.

Getting really annoyed by statements like this at this point.

You have got to be joking, right? PoE has the most bloat of any game I have ever played, and I'm in my mid 40s. On what planet did you think people were talking about bloat in maps? It has nothing to do with that. It's that to understand and know the game efficiently it takes hundreds and probably more like thousand of hours to memorize the crafting systems, and the absurd amount of "word definitions" in the skill tree, and how all these mechanics work with each other, and a hole multitude of 3rd party web sites with full blown calculating tools.

A new players could be lost for years in this game.

So what? Let them learn no baby shit in poe and how it's always been that way hell some of you refuse to do that; You don't wanna take the time to learn and go why is my char dying so much. Get that all out of here

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cgexile wrote:

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Vennto wrote:

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BobsynS wrote:

I dislike current PoE because of too much focus on power-creep and bloated gameplay. I do understand they need to sell stash tabs but the amount of quantity of items you see and even Need to pick up is ridiculous.

I really don´t understand how people can call PoE still bloated after all the improvements via atlas passives. You can literally block out all the "bloated" content you don´t like and get even more of the things you DO enjoy in return, that´s hell of a clever design as well as top-notch player-agency that is better than in any other game.

Getting really annoyed by statements like this at this point.

The atlas passive was an incredible addition to the game. However, in order to get something out of one mechanic or another, you really need to min max that tree. I think this is fine, but as a result of all of these mechanics, maps - that were the end-game staple of PoE - are now basically a throwaway proxy for whatever mechanic you want to specialize in. Maps went through numerous manifestos over the years; how important they are etc etc. Now the game transformed where maps are just there to proc the mechanic or 2 you want to focus on, and from this perspective players can see bloat - especially when most of the mechanics are not at the original power or capability. A lot of players just want to blast maps, but loot was effectively removed from mobs in maps and moved to said mechanics. The choice of just blasting maps was removed - if you will.

I just wholly and completely disagree. Unlike the passive tree, the atlas is not multiplicative. So the last 20 points feel like almost nothing and are generally not worth it as a grind.

Both strategies reach 80% of their margins at half the atlas points:
A) Focus on 2-3 mechanics like Legion, Delirium + Maven
B) Run as many maps with % or completion bonus points

Profit margins may vary depending on the meta but everyone can farm 2-5 divines per hour with either style.

I guess we'll be seeing the "D4 is POE Killer" thread soon.

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Valkaneer wrote:

You have got to be joking, right? PoE has the most bloat of any game I have ever played, and I'm in my mid 40s. On what planet did you think people were talking about bloat in maps? It has nothing to do with that. It's that to understand and know the game efficiently it takes hundreds and probably more like thousand of hours to memorize the crafting systems, and the absurd amount of "word definitions" in the skill tree, and how all these mechanics work with each other, and a hole multitude of 3rd party web sites with full blown calculating tools.

A new players could be lost for years in this game.

Want to hear a fun fact? You don't need to know everything to enjoy the game - not even most of it. You can have a complete blast by only mapping, or Delving, or Heisting - or whatever other piece of content floats your boat. If you decide to stress yourself over not understanding EVERYTHING, that's on you.

How exactly is giving players more content, more choice, more agency, more depth a bad thing? Been playing for 5 years, and I've still haven't touched Syndicate or Crafting because I don't feel like learning these mechanics yet. And isn't that amazing? It means that on the one hand, I can enjoy the game perfectly fine without knowing everything, while on the other hand the game still provides me with things to learn if I ever wish to dive 'deeper'.

Therefore this so called 'bloat' actually provides fun for both a casual who only wants to run a few maps a day and someone who has a PhD in Engineering and wants to do some serious math. You just have to have the right mindset.