Ethereal Knives

As i read this i thought: yeah finally a useful skill for a dagger build.
I was wrong.

I was really sad when i got my hands on this gem. Not only does it suck big time, no it also scaled only on spell damage and cast speed(WTH???).

Did you know that there are only 60% increased spell damage and 40% cast speed in total on the skill tree?(sure only takes 56 nodes to get it all. who needs survivability this this small range anyway... ) Seriously.

I started out as a ranger to do an awesome build that throws some daggers and does medium range aoe dmg.

Sure i could've read the skill description, but why? I really thought that this would be a knife throw skill and not some kind of useless spell.

So i skilled attack speed and dagger damage because knife/dagger sounds like the same thing.

At least this skill should have some kind of synergy with dagger passives or no dagger should have the word knife in their name at all.


I am very sorry if this all sounds like i am just flaming, but i just was really disappointed because i was really hoping for some skill that makes daggers usable except for witchcrittrololol builds.

If the skill does not feel and sound like a spell, why should it be one? Please make this a Dagger skill and not some kind of physical spell.

If a skill was called Ethereal Sword(s) would you honestly think it would be an attack skill. Not likely (unless it's some spiritual attack), it's likely a spell that summons swords to stab your enemies. This is a spell because it makes the most sense (why would this scale on weapon damage if it's not your real weapons). Also this benefits from +projectile damage which there is plenty of in the ranger section and the shadow section. It should be easy to get those and boost the damage a lot.

With Ethereal Knives being a spell not an attack, and Whirling Blades having a significant damage reduction and delay, I predict there will be a multitude of trap-shadows this weekend and very few claw-shadows. There really is no incentive to use claws as a melee character due to the lack of AOE skills.

It's a shame, I really wanted to throw knives in the same way the D2 assassin throws shurikens (as a percentage of weapon damage).

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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UristMcDwarfy wrote:

Also, Jozen, added integer damage from gear has never worked on spells. Because this is a spell, I would guess this is intended behavior.

Correct. Added damage from gear is implicitly only for attacks. I'd prefer to have that explicitly described, but in that case, reducing the wordiness of a very common mod won out, and also this is the same as those mods functioned in D2.

IMO you should take a hint from League of Legends and color code mods that apply to spells, attacks, and/or both. I think that would provide exactly the clarity you're looking for without making it more wordy.

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Mark_GGG wrote:

No. Only one projectile can hit each target.

Then fix spark. Why does Kudoku get to hit me with 3 sparks instantly? =D

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Mark_GGG wrote:

Ethereal Knives is a spell. It is not an attack, and does not use your weapon in any way.

if that's what you intend, then there's at least a character sheet problem in that it seems to use weapon critical chance for it's critical chance.

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Mark_GGG wrote:

No. Only one projectile can hit each target. For This skill, we specifically implemented the ability to turn off the 'shotgun' behaviour for some spell projectiles.

It feels strange to me that it shoots 9 projectiles considering it's such small AoE and such. I presume increase projectile speed makes it go further though, so maybe it could be better then.


I also agree with what Ragura said. It seems a bit weird as it is; just like a terrible-damaged, non-piercing, slower ground slam clone for spellcasters.

I feel as though this skill needs retooling, the only thing this would add to a caster is physical damage as a spell, which can only be boosted by spell damage, and overall the range/speed/mana cost is lacking.

It feels in no way useful, and most of the supports that would work with it would do much better elsewhere.

Increase the arc angle; let it scale from weapon damage. Then it's a decent melee Dex shotgun-style AoE.

As it is now, it's fairly redundant. On my dagger shadow, using no traps, I still found single-targeting more effective than the AoE from either this or Whirling Blades. Whirling Blades at least has the benefit of being great for movement though. I couldn't find a decent use for this.

I tried using this with my Shadow... and it's worthless, really. The range is pathetic (you have to be almost at melee distance, and then might as well engage). The mana cost is ridiculous comparing to most of my melee skills. Because this does not use stats from weapons, I don't get life leech from my claws. So, with that being said, attacking anything worthwhile with this skill is like asking for trouble. You're at a melee range with mediocre damage (comparing to my dual strike that can dispatch most enemies in 1-2 hits at the same lvl). And even if I do use it, I'll run out of mana before I can kill anything because it's so costly.

I'm also not a fan of the animation... I expected something more grand, heh

I would be more satisfied with a skill that throws your weapons at the enemies. Yeah, in reality you'd have to get them, but this is a game. Or a spell that throws knives for a double the distance of this spell right now to make it even usable for a low hp melee character. And with that damage, I might as well grab cold snap or something. I'll get more use out of that.

Yeah, I have to agree with the nay-sayers.

If this was an attack skill instead, with weapon damage %, it would actually make the Shadow dagger build less miserable.

I'm thinking a rework, like...

3 projectiles base, with double the projectiles when dual wielding. Projectile count increases similarly to Split Arrow.

40% weapon damage (for each knife), increased by 2% each level. Additionally, it could have +elemental or physical damage bonus either as base or a random element for each knife.

Range stays the same, increases by 2% each level. Project speed support gems could increase range.

+Quality on the gem could add chance to pierce, or to ricochet to nearby enemy, or increased crit chance.

Minor mana cost. (I suggest this, as the damage % being low and with dagger/claw attack speeds, this skill would be spammed quickly as apposed to a heavy draw)

I may also suggest a cooldown after a certain number of uses, say to "reload" the knife belt for balancing purposes. Instead of that, there could be charges like traps, though they would regenerate more quickly.

Alternatively it could have the split arrow shotgun mechanic work on the same target with a % chance. Ie. You cast 6 knives, while visually 4 of those knives pass through the boundaries of the enemy. One hits, the others have a % chance to hit the same target, or to ricochet to another target (ricochet may hit regardless of whether that other target has been hit). If that doesn't proc it just does as it does now, passes through.

Could be tricky working with split second dice rolls but that would be a very amusing skill. Kind of like chain lightning but with metal.

Anything would help this skill, though. At the moment, the shadow using claws and daggers is a bit too single target oriented, which makes for a sore wrist and an unsatisfying play, imo.