The nature of the trade market mechanics pretty much ruins the endgame on console.

Its not that you cant play the end game - its just that finding optimized gear required for most builds is simply so boring that I end up not bothering to play after somewhere between 86 and 89 and without getting to the actual endgame.

I should have said "trade market".

The system absolutely makes the game boring, but my advice for anyone also pretty upset... adjust expectations. Go for SSF builds and remember what made PoE exciting for you in the first place. Then literally the exact moment the game feels like work, stop. imho, anytime a game feels like work it stops being a game.

Respect/Shout out to those that do work on the console versions! From time to time, the game is def fun. Those issues with the start of the last league was harsh tho, but glad to see it got better. For us players tho, sure the market system is bad. Yes it'll affect # of players and $$ spent on supporter packs, but like, in a way that's not our problem. We players could like...just go. Not like the we haven't expressed the market issue a lot.

I've read the philosophy about the current setup, but it straight up misses the philosophy of what makes a video game. Or fails to address how bad people can be (kinda like Communism. It looked good on paper!) Anyway, the constant dopamine hit of progression is what makes a game. Instead the market turns the game into a job, and by the time you get to try the next phase the only reason you're playing is because you told yourself to keep going.

Anyway, I'm not saying leave. Just, maybe "Marie Kondo" gaming a bit. If it isn't bringing joy, toss it. If the issues get fixed, come back :)

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tmconway wrote:

...
I've read the philosophy about the current setup, but it straight up misses the philosophy of what makes a video game. Or fails to address how bad people can be (kinda like Communism. It looked good on paper!) Anyway, the constant dopamine hit of progression is what makes a game. Instead the market turns the game into a job, and by the time you get to try the next phase the only reason you're playing is because you told yourself to keep going....

^-- This.

I don't really get very excited for new Leagues anymore. Sure, there's the "illusion of possibility" to look forward to.

But, I no longer play expecting much "fun." I play because I "told myself I would." I'll have a few novel experiences, mabye, and if I get really, really, lucky then my character might become "OK'ish." (The campaign is boring as heck, now, and I loathe having to slog through every second of it...)

It's the Marketplace that hits me so very hard.

I have a friend who plays who's playstyle and general aptitude allows him to usually do very good, even to excel. My own playstyle with PoE is not that feverish, so I can't follow the usual min/max recommendations there. (Crank out maps, blitz 'em, ignore play value for studious repetition and quick-grinding.)

I generally don't get many of the "chase items" for any build no matter how far I get and have abandoned builds I was really enthusiastic about trying just because it was not possible for "me" to grind out enough to get lucky to be able to afford what was currently being price-fixed in equipment_slot_x... I've had several builds that I truly wanted to experience end up "dying" because the console market sucks and is nowhere near as matured as the PC marketplace. All those items recommended for builds... that I never see.

GGG's response is basically "Suck it up and check your privilege! You have it easy and you should be punished for that."

Well, in any case, I'm sure it's my fault somehow...

It's not "search" ability as much as it is just the lack of items and players to make the markets competitive. XBox pricing is typically three times or more the price of items in the same PC league. (Sometimes, far above that, too.) That means a sufficient amount of more grinding in hopes of getting good RNG for currency or drops.

Also, there's some content I just can't stand... But, then GGG realizes it's not very good and in a rush to try to engender support and enthusiasm for it, dumps a whole load of near-exploity loot 'splosion mechanics on top of it. Uh, "yay?" How does that help me?

In the end, what the console marketplace suffers from is that the game's economy of available resources is not designed to work well with very small player populations. The console marketplace and what it could actually do to help players enjoy the game is generally not effective for many players.

(Note: I've been playing on XBox since Abyss League.)

You got it right Morkonan. Not long ago I suggested to another to bank league currency, try stuff on standard, but I don't even take that advice. Whatever magic I had making the character is pretty much gone by then.

Honestly, trying to imagine being on the dev side here since I've had some experience in software. I think they legit have themselves cornered in a no win situation. And I think that's why any calls to action on this issue go nowhere.

You got multiple platforms. Multiple player bases, around the world with all different expectations. At some point trade comes up and gets implemented. But wait, gotta try to balance drop rates, gear combinations, skill combos, but also among ALL of that need to consider how easy it is to get top gear when trade is a thing. Man, that's a recipe for disaster. There's no way to win this.

Even if some of the suggestions here were carried out, is the game actually less boring? Maybe it just needs to be a new style of SSF with shared character stashes that balances drop and difficulty properly. Like I bet the original ideas were for PoE. Before years of changes (good changes) made the issues with trade impossible.

Course there's probably some issue with that too, but anyway. I've played many an MMO where catering to a few eventually spelled the end for the whole game. That's an issue of pride. Shoot, seen pride take down a few companies too. Stubborn pride, causing lost vision, it's a killer. PoE could indeed take all the amazing additions and have a little introspection. Remember what games are about...maybe that's harsh, but it's also a tiny bit true.

Until then tho, usually when I post here it's a sign that I'm a bit burned out. Kinda like how fewer happy people review a product.

P.S. yes, even in the new league, doing the campaign again...honestly I don't even know if I can. Holy hell...

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tmconway wrote:

I've read the philosophy about the current setup, but it straight up misses the philosophy of what makes a video game. Or fails to address how bad people can be (kinda like Communism. It looked good on paper!) Anyway, the constant dopamine hit of progression is what makes a game. Instead the market turns the game into a job, and by the time you get to try the next phase the only reason you're playing is because you told yourself to keep going.

Well said. You you dont like spending many many boring hours combing the markets you either have to accept playing one maybe 8 or 10 basic cookie cutter builds that work with easy to get gear to get to the end game or of you want more interesting builds(that work on PC) you have to accept not playing the endgame.

"

tmconway wrote:

Honestly, trying to imagine being on the dev side here since I've had some experience in software. I think they legit have themselves cornered in a no win situation. And I think that's why any calls to action on this issue go nowhere.

You got multiple platforms. Multiple player bases, around the world with all different expectations. At some point trade comes up and gets implemented. But wait, gotta try to balance drop rates, gear combinations, skill combos, but also among ALL of that need to consider how easy it is to get top gear when trade is a thing. Man, that's a recipe for disaster. There's no way to win this.

The issue isnt the size of the player base.



People who have stuff they would like to sell dont bother posting it because
1 Its a bother compared to PC.
2 Good stuff doesnt get bought often because buyers cant find it.


You could make an ok game that is less market dependent. But the end game in POE simply isnt balanced for it. Its takes a much more extreme gamer(high resistance to boredom) on console to reach the end game than it does on PC.

You could easily just play SSF if an optional trade market bums you out so much.

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DwF BeWarned wrote:

You could easily just play SSF if an optional trade market bums you out so much.

He tried to troll and failed.

"

Ghoest9 wrote:

Its not that you cant play the end game - its just that finding optimized gear required for most builds is simply so boring that I end up not bothering to play after somewhere between 86 and 89 and without getting to the actual endgame.

You may be setting your expectations a little high. It sounds like you're bailing around level 86-89 because you haven't found (by rng or market) your endgame, optimized build items(?)

That's a little early to have a min-max build stamped and ready for the harder, endgame content, Shaper, Uber Elder, A8, Uber Atziri etc. Hell, I'm still praying for Lab trials into the early 90s given my luck.

I can normally find what I need in the market, but I rarely have the currency to afford high-end gear by level 86-89.

It's a grindy game, for sure. If you hang in there a bit more, get that build you're working on together, you might come away with a better experience.

Sorry though, homie!

Edit: spelling