[3.16 - RETIRING BUILD] VD Brands: S-Tier Bosser, A-Tier Map! -- MURDERED BY GGG_INTERN SOMEWHERE--

"

zoinkjr wrote:

"

tghero wrote:

Okay, so I basically looked at one of primaeva's characters and mimicked the tree, lol.

My question now - how do you sustain life exactly beyond the life on spell hit ring(s)? Just faced a boss in T16 and got absolutely rolled even with determination. My POB if anyone wants to look...gear is obviously still in progress.

https://pastebin.com/2Qc4g2gr

You can roll fire damage leeched as life on a notable on a glorious vanity. May be difficult to get the right one.

You can also pick up a megalomaniac or other cluster jewel that has ele or spell life leech on it.

There's one f/s right now that has discipline reservation and leech for only 60c. This is one of the searches I used

https://www.pathofexile.com/trade/search/Scourge/82P6o0ZFV

Hey thanks for this. Had to get one with Disc res/Blacksmith instead but it's a very noticeable improvement.

"

tghero wrote:

My question now - how do you sustain life exactly beyond the life on spell hit ring(s)? Just faced a boss in T16 and got absolutely rolled even with determination.

Just to clarify, was it a sustain issue on the boss or did they one hit/two tap you ("absolutely rolled" sounds more like the latter but maybe I'm reading too much into that) where sustain wouldn't have been the difference?

Remember which boss it was?

Something like a chaos pop is either respec for that fight or just don't get hit while running at -30% odd. For something phys related you're looking at Taste of Hate to lower the incoming damage, making sure your sap is up (and capped) and avoiding it as best you can. Eventually you'd be hopefully replacing the mana flask with that, but for now you'd be needing to swap it in for... the Sulphur? I guess. Maybe the rotgut depending on the fight and the mechanics involved. Similar goes for big bleeds, ignites or shocks that can do you nasty real fast if not accounted for in rippy maps (though, normally not a big problem to be honest... maybe more so when damage is still building with gems?).

If sustain was the issue it could be a question of brand uptime, not having supplementary brands to step in when a set drop off (brand equity), not having enough sustain (the second LGOH ring, but shouldn't really be the issue and lots of folks get by with a single ring), out of combat damage which normally falls into "don't stand in that" or just lacking damage. 9/10 I find fixing the damage helps with whatever other problem I'm facing so personally I'd probably start there.

A few things from a glance:

- At mostly 16 gems you should quickly blast some lower level scourge or easy Heist to get them up to scratch if you're having trouble in T16s. Everything is easier with more damage and gems are a lot more damage.

- What auras are you running (currently just Discipline, Determination and Aspect)? There's a gem or two missing as I'm looking and you're chilling with about 28% unreserved mana after a big investment into lowering the Discipline reservation. Way more than you'd need for any of the obvious inclusions like Skitters.

(Unless you've a plan on what you need the additional mana for and how you're going to invest it anything less than a solid 3 passive mego where you really want the other two will be an effective loss compared to what you can do on the tree. The life leech there is nice, but not nearly enough to make those 8 points worth it. You could achieve similar with the unused jewel socket at melding while having 6 passives to play with)

- Arcane Potency only scales the spell portion, the part we try not to scale, of VD and not the corpse explosion part that we try to scale. Brand Equity is pretty vital to keeping uptime on your brands, and literally halving your clear dps or dps on any boss with minions or multi boss setup, so well worth reanointing/changing the ammy.

Could someone please share with me the spectres if it's possible? I'm having trouble getting them

"

TsuDhoNim wrote:

"

tghero wrote:

My question now - how do you sustain life exactly beyond the life on spell hit ring(s)? Just faced a boss in T16 and got absolutely rolled even with determination.

Just to clarify, was it a sustain issue on the boss or did they one hit/two tap you ("absolutely rolled" sounds more like the latter but maybe I'm reading too much into that) where sustain wouldn't have been the difference?

Remember which boss it was?

Something like a chaos pop is either respec for that fight or just don't get hit while running at -30% odd. For something phys related you're looking at Taste of Hate to lower the incoming damage, making sure your sap is up (and capped) and avoiding it as best you can. Eventually you'd be hopefully replacing the mana flask with that, but for now you'd be needing to swap it in for... the Sulphur? I guess. Maybe the rotgut depending on the fight and the mechanics involved. Similar goes for big bleeds, ignites or shocks that can do you nasty real fast if not accounted for in rippy maps (though, normally not a big problem to be honest... maybe more so when damage is still building with gems?).

If sustain was the issue it could be a question of brand uptime, not having supplementary brands to step in when a set drop off (brand equity), not having enough sustain (the second LGOH ring, but shouldn't really be the issue and lots of folks get by with a single ring), out of combat damage which normally falls into "don't stand in that" or just lacking damage. 9/10 I find fixing the damage helps with whatever other problem I'm facing so personally I'd probably start there.

A few things from a glance:

- At mostly 16 gems you should quickly blast some lower level scourge or easy Heist to get them up to scratch if you're having trouble in T16s. Everything is easier with more damage and gems are a lot more damage.

- What auras are you running (currently just Discipline, Determination and Aspect)? There's a gem or two missing as I'm looking and you're chilling with about 28% unreserved mana after a big investment into lowering the Discipline reservation. Way more than you'd need for any of the obvious inclusions like Skitters.

(Unless you've a plan on what you need the additional mana for and how you're going to invest it anything less than a solid 3 passive mego where you really want the other two will be an effective loss compared to what you can do on the tree. The life leech there is nice, but not nearly enough to make those 8 points worth it. You could achieve similar with the unused jewel socket at melding while having 6 passives to play with)

- Arcane Potency only scales the spell portion, the part we try not to scale, of VD and not the corpse explosion part that we try to scale. Brand Equity is pretty vital to keeping uptime on your brands, and literally halving your clear dps or dps on any boss with minions or multi boss setup, so well worth reanointing/changing the ammy.

The map was the T15(?) one with the enrage Rhoa boss, so it was the two-tap one for sure.

Will get on the amulet. Wasn't sure how large a deal it was so was working on other things first, so will prioritize that now since I understand a bit better. Purchased it with Potency already there and just never changed it.

Just those three auras now - just got that mego gem and freed up some mana there and haven't plugged something else in yet. Still trying to wrap my head around what auras I should be transitioning to I guess? I thought the skitter shock was for Impulsas, I'm sure I'm missing something. Would they help me even without an explody chest here?

So if I find a gem with some sort of leech to put near Melding over there, what would I try to fit in aura-wise? Not sure what would fit and still leave me with a bit to play with.

Thank you for all the advice here!

edit - Okay, I think I'm getting it a bit better here. Looked at my Glorious Vanity notables and found Revitalising Flames pretty close. So I get the Fire damage and leech without all the extra passives. Then can fill in a bit more with those extra points. Nice!

"

tghero wrote:

The map was the T15(?) one with the enrage Rhoa boss, so it was the two-tap one for sure.

Not sure how much damage his charges too, I've always kited him and taken him out from a distance running away like a chicken from his Chaos DOT to ever come in contact with those. But yeah, he a rippy one.

For that one the additional brands would help a lot making sure you keep the two up on him for extra sustain, but even then I'm not sure if he'd be able to eat through your sustain with his Chaos DOT or potentially one/two tap. Since the rhao rework the other league he's nasty (first time I did that map this league I'd forgotten the rework and without thinking enraged him... think I went -20% on that slip).

In this situation... extra damage is the easy fix rather than pushing sustain, mitigation or chaos res. Kite, leap slam like a crazy man, stay far away and try and blow him up before he gets a shot in. Eventually you'll look to improve your gear to hit 0% on chaos res and build your life pool to have an easier time tanking his nonsense... but for now deepsing your way out of the challenge is much easier/cheaper.

"

tghero wrote:

Will get on the amulet. Wasn't sure how large a deal it was so was working on other things first, so will prioritize that now since I understand a bit better. Purchased it with Potency already there and just never changed it.

Yeah, Brand Equity is one of those that looks questionable on paper, it's barely helping, but in reality is vital to brand uptime and even damage.

For that fight in theory you'd try and avoid killing all the trash, aggro the boss out towards them and then try to use them to double the damage on the boss with a set of brands on him and a set of brands on the trash mob standing next to him with the corpse explosions from both overlapping. Won't work too often the way he charges about, but for stuff where the mobs are on top of the boss or two bosses are close by each other it's a huge damage increase.

"

tghero wrote:

Just those three auras now - just got that mego gem and freed up some mana there and haven't plugged something else in yet. Still trying to wrap my head around what auras I should be transitioning to I guess? I thought the skitter shock was for Impulsas, I'm sure I'm missing something. Would they help me even without an explody chest here?

Skitters are needed to get the Inpulsa pops once you get a Leadership, but are helpful even without 'needing' it for the clear. Shock is always helpful for damage and chill is always helpful for easing sustain by slowing or helping you avoid attacks.

In a similar way you'd consider rolling Aspect even if you were using a Watchers for the ES on hit. It's a decent damage and defense boost even when not powering the sustain.

Without explodey mod on your chest I'd imagine Herald of Ash might be the best bang for your buck 4th aura to boost your clear with the current mana? I've forgotten the specific numbers already and too lazy to fire up POB again, but pretty sure you could have squeezed it in iirc. Skitters the slightly cheaper on mana option if HoA didn't fit, losing some clear boost (when not empowering your inpulsa it's not boosting your clear) but gaining some bossing help from the shock/chill.

"

tghero wrote:

So if I find a gem with some sort of leech to put near Melding over there, what would I try to fit in aura-wise? Not sure what would fit and still leave me with a bit to play with.

The normal progression grabs a Divergent Inspiration to drop the VD mana demands a chunk, getting the cost down to 1 per cast, freeing up both reservation needs (28ish mana is loads to sustain everything) and allowing dropping the mana flask. That allows you to squeeze in determination, discipline, aspect and skitters with 2% mana unreserved, enough to fuel everything perfectly.

In your position and (assuming you're) without having the budget for the Div Inspiration yet, I'd personally drop the megalomaniac completely (+8 points). Grab the Discipline efficiency mastery at Written In Blood (+7), the crit/crit multi wheel and mastery at Throatseeker (+2) and the jewel socket at melding. In a perfect world you'd hope to grab a nice Watchers Eye with Discipline ES on hit and a second Discipline/Determination mod or potentially a nice Vitality or Clarity mod where you can slip the additional aura in at a low cost. Those Eyes are pretty expensive though, so for now you can use it for a basic jewel with life/fire/crit/crit multi/whatever else you fancy.

(With that rhoa boss I don't think the issue was lack of sustain, so wouldn't be focusing on leech when life pool or damage are helping to solve more potential problems. That said, it's certainly an option and you can easily look to squeeze it in on a Vitality watchers or even on a boot enchant.)

You'd be losing a lot of free mana, but with your flask you'd be fine, and losing the current leech but gaining a chunk of damage in return. Totally a win in my book.

Lots of ways a Discipline efficiency mego can be amazing, but they'd all involve investing in other places pretty heavily to make investing so many passives worth the effort. If going that direction you absolutely want all 3 mods on the mego to be giving decent returns to keep the efficiency high enough to justify it.

"

TsuDhoNim wrote:

Lots of ways a Discipline efficiency mego can be amazing, but they'd all involve investing in other places pretty heavily to make investing so many passives worth the effort. If going that direction you absolutely want all 3 mods on the mego to be giving decent returns to keep the efficiency high enough to justify it.

Wouldn't a Determination efficiency mego provide more breathing room with mana than the Discipline efficiency mego?

What's the deal with the levels on the gems in the PoB? I am not sure what to trust and what not to. Why are so many gems at lvl 19, or 18 or 13? CWDT I understand, but the rest? Any advice appreciated.

"

Soulravel wrote:

Wouldn't a Determination efficiency mego provide more breathing room with mana than the Discipline efficiency mego?

I was referring to the one they were currently using rather than one I'd suggest using.

The Determination would free slightly more mana alright from what I remember, but also be functionally different so wouldn't be 'better' per se. I can think of situations where being able to swap out either Determination (if doing pure ele/chaos content the phys reduction isn't required) or Discipline (more generic life pool, but not required for blasting lower level Scourge compared to Determination to reduce the chip phys damage) for other auras, while retaining the efficiency gains on the other, might be desired. Depends what you want it to do.

On a relatively budget setup I wouldn't suggest chasing either ahead of the normal mana cost reductions. The base tree is hella efficient. Takes a pretty juicy cluster and investing further around it for it to come out ahead.

"

vomitscream wrote:

What's the deal with the levels on the gems in the PoB? I am not sure what to trust and what not to. Why are so many gems at lvl 19, or 18 or 13? CWDT I understand, but the rest? Any advice appreciated.

Which gems in which POB?

If it's pretty much every gem in the budget build it's showing what damage would be like at that stage in progression. If you leaguestart or ssf the build you won't be able to snipe cheap corrupted lvl20s or 21s so nice to see what the damage is like before you're able to max it out.

The only gems you couldn't max level in this build are the CWDT setup. You might hold off on leveling a gem while leveling your character if struggling for mana sustain or on attributes to manage it, but eventually you'd want most maxed out (within reason... Leap Slam we only care about speed not damage, Ball Lightning we only care about hits so can be left level 1, WoC is there for exposure so can be left low to avoid Phys Reflect issues) other than the CWDT when you can.

"

xenxenon wrote:

Could someone please share with me the spectres if it's possible? I'm having trouble getting them

If you join Global channel 6666 (type "/global 6666" in game) and ask there for Litho and Stoneskins they'll hook you up. Works for pretty much any highly desired specters, or just general minion related chatter.

"

Reverted an unintended change where corpses of Spectre monsters were made to be just as likely as other corpses from Desecrate and other corpse generating skills. Spectre-based corpses are once again twice as likely as corpses from the area.

Pretty big buff.

Damage should feel a lot more consistent and less spikey than it had up until now.