3.11 | Carry Me Golems | Carrion/Stone Golem Elementalist | Very Tanky and High DPS summoner

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wasaki101 wrote:

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grimjack68 wrote:

So, after literally hours of trying to figure out why I couldn't get vaal molten shell to 100% uptime, I finally found a post on the forum that explained my problem.

PSA: (Short version) Don't start with a quality VMS. Or use increased duration, except in very specific circumstances.

(Long version) The problem is, anything that increases the duration on VMS (quality, increased duration gem, etc) also increases the soul prevention duration. Makes sense, sure. HOWEVER. The Soul Catcher flask only reduces the portion of soul gain prevention on the base gem - it has no effect on the added SGP put there by other factors.

On the positive side, I traded my 20/20 VMS for a 20/0 and took home an extra 80 chaos.

Also.

My latest project:

Pretty much has all the affixes I want, just not decent numbers yet. A bunch of add / remove life / defenses (Hope to get the %armour increase from the influence tag) / chaos resist / elemental resist.

Wait so is it not possible to have molten shell up 100% of the time?

It is possible, however, you need to run a non-quality gem, and you can't use increased duration.

Vaal Molten Shell, level 20, quality 0 duration: 9s
Soul gain prevention: 14s x 60% from soul catcher = 8.4s + cooldown time 0.5s = 8.9s
Works!

Vaal Molten Shell, level 20, quality 20 duration: 10.8s
Soul gain prevention: 16.8 - 5.6 from soul catcher = 11.2 + cooldown time 0.5s = 11.7
Over by .9s :(

Vaal Molten Shell, level 20, quality 0 + increased duration 20: 15.66s
Soul gain prevention: 24.36 - 5.6 from soul catcher = 18.76 + cooldown time 0.5s = 19.23
Over by nearly 4s :(

Every time you add duration, the gap gets a little bigger.

I've also linked mine to Second Wind, which I primarily use for Flame dash, but it also drops the cooldown on VMS from .5 to under .4, gives me a little bit more room to mess up on the flask rhythm.

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chloris143 wrote:

Bro can i get your POB? Didn't realize the build is a bit expensive even without cluster jewels. You think 2 ex 300c would suffice to run this build?

I league started with it and it blew through all content once you get your golems.

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grimjack68 wrote:

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junkypic011 wrote:

Ok. somebody help me out with the math here since apparently I'm unable to do simple division and multiplication.

I'm trying to get my stone golems to use ONLY slam. According to what OP said in the guide what I'm doing is fine.

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As long as 1 divided by attack/cast rate multiplied by 3 (or 4 if using awakened multistrike) is ever so slightly greater than the skill cooldown, then the attack speed is optimal.

My golem stats



The formula should be, in my case: (1 / 2.13) * 3 = 1.40

1.40 is higher than 1.27 yet my golems do one slam then proceed to do a simple melee attack.

You can checkout my char in my profile. Name: MaaaGetTheCamera.

Also Pob https://pastebin.com/qDR3rdxn

Your math is correct. They should be slamming.

Unless your Glorious Vanity modded one of the minor nodes to minion speed?

Edit: Spelling.

There's a bug with that. There's a reddit thread for it too. https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/i122ps/did_golems_get_ninja_nerfed/

I'm not the only one experiencing this issue. Most likely whoever uses this build will have the same problem.

I would like to thank skyscan for posting this build. This build is strong both offensively and defensively, and so far I am having fun with this build. Currently I am level 96 and I will try to push this character to level 100 and collect lots of currency so I can test the non-primordial chain carrion golem variant.
Currently I am doing around 2.77 million shaper dps per golem. I followed the build guide but I want to point out to couple of items:
1) The glove: I got this glove as a drop and I was lucky that it already had 30% increased minion damage (Redeemer mod). I then harvest crafted the glove and I am satisfied with the result.
2) Darkness Enthroned. Since I capped my elemental and chaos resistance without stygian vise, I decided to use darkness enthroned. Thanks to the 75% increased effect of socketed jewels, The current belt gives me 113 to maximum life, 19% chance to blind, and 14% increased minion attack speed (STILL TOTAL ATTACK SPEED IS LARGER THAN THE COOLDOWN). I can use harvest craft to get from 4% attack speed to 6% attack speed if I want to, resulting into an increase from 14% to 21% increased attack speed. The current belt gives me a total damage 152,000 x 7 = 1 M shaper dps. Of course stygian vise is a priority if you need to fill resistances and get more life.
3) Glorious vanity: I purchase one with 1950 value, which gave me: 12% increased maximum life, +20% to fire resistance, 5% increased effect of non-curse auras from your skills, and regenerate 0.87% of life per second. POG CHAMP!!!!!

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grimjack68 wrote:

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wasaki101 wrote:

"

grimjack68 wrote:

So, after literally hours of trying to figure out why I couldn't get vaal molten shell to 100% uptime, I finally found a post on the forum that explained my problem.

PSA: (Short version) Don't start with a quality VMS. Or use increased duration, except in very specific circumstances.

(Long version) The problem is, anything that increases the duration on VMS (quality, increased duration gem, etc) also increases the soul prevention duration. Makes sense, sure. HOWEVER. The Soul Catcher flask only reduces the portion of soul gain prevention on the base gem - it has no effect on the added SGP put there by other factors.

On the positive side, I traded my 20/20 VMS for a 20/0 and took home an extra 80 chaos.

Also.

My latest project:

Pretty much has all the affixes I want, just not decent numbers yet. A bunch of add / remove life / defenses (Hope to get the %armour increase from the influence tag) / chaos resist / elemental resist.

Wait so is it not possible to have molten shell up 100% of the time?

It is possible, however, you need to run a non-quality gem, and you can't use increased duration.

Vaal Molten Shell, level 20, quality 0 duration: 9s
Soul gain prevention: 14s x 60% from soul catcher = 8.4s + cooldown time 0.5s = 8.9s
Works!

Vaal Molten Shell, level 20, quality 20 duration: 10.8s
Soul gain prevention: 16.8 - 5.6 from soul catcher = 11.2 + cooldown time 0.5s = 11.7
Over by .9s :(

Vaal Molten Shell, level 20, quality 0 + increased duration 20: 15.66s
Soul gain prevention: 24.36 - 5.6 from soul catcher = 18.76 + cooldown time 0.5s = 19.23
Over by nearly 4s :(

Every time you add duration, the gap gets a little bigger.

I've also linked mine to Second Wind, which I primarily use for Flame dash, but it also drops the cooldown on VMS from .5 to under .4, gives me a little bit more room to mess up on the flask rhythm.

I guess I still don't get how it works. Skyscan talks about chaining MS with VMS but it seems you are just chaining VMS with itself.

Did you get the Spiked Concoction notable to increase soul catcher's effect to 60%? If so, are you using it on a meglomaniac?

Also, are you using Soul Ripper to gain souls? It seems having %100 MS uptime is impossible without instant soul gain, in either skyscan's method or yours. Or am I missing something?

Thank you in advance :)

How would you improve the clear speed of this build?

My Carrion golems deal less than half of my stone golems; stone golems are retardedly slow by comparison.

I have tried using asenath gentle touch and manually casting vulnerability; it helps a liytle bit on stone golem but still feels clunky.

I am in need of speedy seed farmer that is also tanky, torn between this guy and chieftain bv with explody chest.

The golem does way more damage (i am at 11m with 7 golems), while the bv chieftain only does 1-2m dps. But the clear is leagues better with explody chaining clearing 1-2 screens around me.

Great build, great guide. I league-started with it, stayed with pure stone golems, only switched from daggers to staff.
Stone golems are fast if you stack some minion movement speed.
Every boss melts on sight. Managed to get almost 4M sDPS per stone golem. It can be minmaxed over 4M but there is no point. All content is joke with this build already and it gets a bit boring.

Final equip for reference:

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wasaki101 wrote:

I guess I still don't get how it works. Skyscan talks about chaining MS with VMS but it seems you are just chaining VMS with itself.

Did you get the Spiked Concoction notable to increase soul catcher's effect to 60%? If so, are you using it on a meglomaniac?

Also, are you using Soul Ripper to gain souls? It seems having %100 MS uptime is impossible without instant soul gain, in either skyscan's method or yours. Or am I missing something?

Thank you in advance :)

No worries. I'll try to put together an easy explanation without the math. :)

Use a level 20 vaal molten shell without quality.

I haven't tried the spiked notable, but that's a damn fine suggestion.

I'm using both soul catcher and soul ripper.

So the process goes:
1. Start map, wait until you fill soul ripper, by which time your VMS will be ready to go.
2. Hit Soul Catcher, then VMS.
3. Continue murdering critters until your VMS expires. Technically, it's Soul Gain Prevention will be over 0.1 seconds before VMS expires, but don't worry about that.
4. Hit Soul Ripper: VMS is ready to go.
5. Hit Soul Catcher again
6. Hit VMS. Because Soul Catcher is in effect, VMS's Soul Gain Prevention will be less than the duration on VMS.
7. Loop back to step 3.

The rhythm is a bit weird to get used to, especially with the odd start, but after a while you get used to the 3 keypress dance to keep it up. I assigned the SR to 3, SC to 4, and VMS to R, to make it easier to hit them all in sequence.

If you manage your VMS, you'll nearly always end up at the boss with 3 VMS hits - one running, one charged and ready to go, and one waiting in your Soul Ripper.

Downsides:
- Eats up 2 flask slots. I wasn't really using them for other things anyway. I'm heading for a flask setup that's Forbidden Taste / Soul Catcher / Soul Ripper / Speedflask with the last spot being either Bottled Faith or The Wise Oak if I can balance my elemental resists.
- You need to be careful using curse / offering / movement skills while the Soul Catcher is active, as you don't recover mana. I'm trying to work in using Forbidden taste right after VMS, to cancel the effect of SC, but 4 keypresses is hard. :)

Edit: Well, so much for the *easy* explanation, ended up with another essay. /me shrugs.

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dejuvenate wrote:

How would you improve the clear speed of this build?

My Carrion golems deal less than half of my stone golems; stone golems are retardedly slow by comparison.

I have tried using asenath gentle touch and manually casting vulnerability; it helps a liytle bit on stone golem but still feels clunky.

I am in need of speedy seed farmer that is also tanky, torn between this guy and chieftain bv with explody chest.

The golem does way more damage (i am at 11m with 7 golems), while the bv chieftain only does 1-2m dps. But the clear is leagues better with explody chaining clearing 1-2 screens around me.

I've gotten my stone golems up to where they can *mostly* keep up with me clearing, and I've ditched the Stampede's for 35% movespeed boots with the 10% lab enchant, plus a double movespeed flask. They do get distracted sometimes, and I'll have to use convocation.

I've been seriously considering switching back to carrion to try them out. The plan for that involves ditching the Primordial chain neck for a +2 gems amulet, dropping my move skill (which I only use occasionally anyway), second wind, and dread banner, adding skitterbots, spectres (get the chieftan guys for frenzy charges) and either skellies or zombies to pull the total up to 10 non-golem minions for the carrion damage increase.

I'll go from 7 carrion with the neck to 4 without, but 50% damage multiplier, plus frenzy charges is another ~30%, so I'm pretty sure that's going to add up to more than before.

Edit: Forgot about the Primordial Chain neck's minus damage multiplier. Definitely should be more DPS.

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Mrkef wrote:

Great build, great guide. I league-started with it, stayed with pure stone golems, only switched from daggers to staff.
Stone golems are fast if you stack some minion movement speed.
Every boss melts on sight. Managed to get almost 4M sDPS per stone golem. It can be minmaxed over 4M but there is no point. All content is joke with this build already and it gets a bit boring.

Final equip for reference:

Wow... NICE staff.

Thought I'd go try to pick up one, so my Vaal Molten Shell can deal damage... but 30ex? That's more expensive than a pair of +2 wands! Must be nice! :)