Templar - [3.10] Heraldry Cluster Guardian - 9k Es | 90% all res | 75% block

" grimjack68 wrote: .... Cyclone is interesting. I dunno if it's faster clear or not - you get to kill while moving, while the others on the list require you to stop and cast something to kill. So it's faster that way, however, Cyclone also has a 30% less multiplier on your move speed, so it's slower. But move skills can be used to 'port around without messing up your cyclone, so... I just dunno. I'm going to have to run and time a bunch of maps and average the numbers. Sirus was way easier with Cyclone. The Terrace boss no fear challenge was way harder with Cyclone. There may not be a strong case for either way. My personal favourite so far is Vaal Arc or Cyclone. Yes I use flame dash to move around and cyclone. With the help of flasks and haste skill gem the 30% reduce movement speed from cyclone is actually not very visible. I personally like the smoothness for this playstyle. Dmg wise it's not as high as self-cast arc but honestly everything dies in the first couple of arcs. You can only see the difference in dmg for bosses like Sirius/Shaper etc. As long as you're constantly in cyclone mode, you're in leech mode as well, it's so hard to die with this char even if you try.	Posted by BonJovii#5149 on May 29, 2020, 10:51:41 PM Quote this Post
Can I ask if anyone knows if I can substitute cyclone with other skills to proc CoC arc? Eg. Flicker Strike? If i change to flicker strike do I still have to take into consideration of the 52% increased cooldown recovery APS?	Posted by BonJovii#5149 on May 29, 2020, 11:29:56 PM Quote this Post
" grimjack68 wrote: " NotiboyQho19 wrote: I know it's personal preference and playstyle. But by far, what's the best damage skill you've used on this build? Arc or EK or Divine Ire? And a noob question, what level should Clarity and Vitality need to stay at? I've run EK, Divine Ire, Vaal Arc, and Spark. Oh, and now I'm using Cyclone with CoC & Arc. DI will kill mobs just with the channeling part, the release will kill bosses, but you do need to aim it. Spark is just too random for me. Everything eventually gets tagged, but sometimes it takes a while. EK is entirely self aiming and has built in many extra projectiles. It's a physical projectile spell, so anything that boosts damage on phys or projectiles helps. That's 2 more tags than Arc has, so it's easier to gear. Arc is still mostly self aiming, has built in many "targets" at once, same as EK, however, it also has built in chain, and starts as a lightning skill so no need for the initial phys -> lightning conversion. That lack of an extra conversion is both a blessing and a curse. You can use the gem slot for something else, however, buying good DPS jewels is a bunch of money because you can't use anything with increased physical damage, projectile damage, etc. Cyclone is interesting. I dunno if it's faster clear or not - you get to kill while moving, while the others on the list require you to stop and cast something to kill. So it's faster that way, however, Cyclone also has a 30% less multiplier on your move speed, so it's slower. But move skills can be used to 'port around without messing up your cyclone, so... I just dunno. I'm going to have to run and time a bunch of maps and average the numbers. Sirus was way easier with Cyclone. The Terrace boss no fear challenge was way harder with Cyclone. There may not be a strong case for either way. My personal favourite so far is Vaal Arc or Cyclone. All fair assessments. I do afew things to speed things up. I use adrenaline quicksilver and extra cooldown on my dash from my WE. I also use aspect of the avian, which is too good to not take. I struggle to see how self cast could do more damage than cyclone coc. It definitely didn't feel like it to me when I've played both. I didn't fully run the numbers though so can't say for sure. Last edited by facelessman122#1602 on May 30, 2020, 1:36:15 AM	Posted by facelessman122#1602 on May 30, 2020, 1:33:18 AM Quote this Post
I've only seen relatively medicore damage numbers from cyclone-arc builds while ARC/EK builds go through the roof. Not sure where the love for cyclone is coming from as it definitely feels very slow to me.	Posted by Zweetsok#4583 on May 30, 2020, 1:48:42 AM Quote this Post
" Zweetsok wrote: I've only seen relatively medicore damage numbers from cyclone-arc builds while ARC/EK builds go through the roof. Not sure where the love for cyclone is coming from as it definitely feels very slow to me. Dunno how high the roof is, but im currently at 8,2M per Arc hit. With CoC the DPS is 10 times that. If I enable Vaal Arc and Avian Might happens to be on, the DPS is closer to 130M. Then you got the 5M dps from Cyclone alone. If I'd swap Arcane Surge to Vaal RF I'd break the 150M DPS mark also. This feels high enough for me. Dont even run maps or simulacrums with that high dps, since I swap the gloves for Shadows and Dust and drop my Arc hit from 8,2M to 5,3M, but get Rampage in return for more movespeed. And this is with 4x Large clusters and 0 voices, so with voices it might be even higher :)	Posted by muunisti#2321 on May 30, 2020, 3:06:07 AM Quote this Post
" Zweetsok wrote: I've only seen relatively medicore damage numbers from cyclone-arc builds while ARC/EK builds go through the roof. Not sure where the love for cyclone is coming from as it definitely feels very slow to me. Thats a shame for you, not my experience at all. My clearspeed increased as did my boss killing. I prefer the playstyle and have had no issue with all content. Maybe it was more a gear issue for yourself unless you've just looked at path of building. Calling the dps mediocre is abit ridiculous, outside of herald stacking its sky high. Last edited by facelessman122#1602 on May 30, 2020, 3:44:03 AM	Posted by facelessman122#1602 on May 30, 2020, 3:39:50 AM Quote this Post
" BonJovii wrote: " grimjack68 wrote: .... Cyclone is interesting. I dunno if it's faster clear or not - you get to kill while moving, while the others on the list require you to stop and cast something to kill. So it's faster that way, however, Cyclone also has a 30% less multiplier on your move speed, so it's slower. But move skills can be used to 'port around without messing up your cyclone, so... I just dunno. I'm going to have to run and time a bunch of maps and average the numbers. Sirus was way easier with Cyclone. The Terrace boss no fear challenge was way harder with Cyclone. There may not be a strong case for either way. My personal favourite so far is Vaal Arc or Cyclone. Yes I use flame dash to move around and cyclone. With the help of flasks and haste skill gem the 30% reduce movement speed from cyclone is actually not very visible. I personally like the smoothness for this playstyle. Dmg wise it's not as high as self-cast arc but honestly everything dies in the first couple of arcs. You can only see the difference in dmg for bosses like Sirius/Shaper etc. As long as you're constantly in cyclone mode, you're in leech mode as well, it's so hard to die with this char even if you try. How are you getting leech mode linked to Cyclone? Current league IGN: Teldra_Anc_LAD Feel free to message me in game if I'm on.	Posted by grimjack68#6087 on May 30, 2020, 3:56:15 AM Quote this Post
" facelessman122 wrote: All fair assessments. I do afew things to speed things up. I use adrenaline quicksilver and extra cooldown on my dash from my WE. I also use aspect of the avian, which is too good to not take. I struggle to see how self cast could do more damage than cyclone coc. It definitely didn't feel like it to me when I've played both. I didn't fully run the numbers though so can't say for sure. I trade flasks depending on the situation, between quicksilver with extra speed, quicksilver with curse immunity, and rumi's for actual hard content. But of course, I do the same for my self cast. I haven't put aspect of the avian on my increased cooldown belt yet, but I have the free suffix for it. I did run the numbers for both my build and your setup, with the caveat that raw numbers don't always tell the whole story. For instance, I'm definitely taking a DPS hit, but Sirus was significantly easier to kill even with lower raw numbers. Here's the raw figures from my PoB: Spoiler My self cast arc: 168 million* My Cyclone / arc: 114 million Your Cyclone / arc: 121 million** This is burst damage, with vaal haste up, which I cannot use with Cyclone 'cause it pushes my APS over the breakpoint. Without that, I'm lower than my cyclone numbers by ~10 million. *Set up with the same config as mine, which may not be accurate. Very possible you're actually pushing more than that. My personal theory with Sirus is that the Cyclone skill makes it easier to hit the guy, even if you can't pick him out of the clones / effects on screen. This seems to be my biggest challenge with self cast, is that I can't FIND him. Once I do, he usually 'ports to somewhere else and I have to start looking again. I suspect the EK guys with ring of blades have an even easier time of it. Also, the non-burst DPS for cyclone is higher, but it doesn't burst as high. Bottom line, more reliable DPS. Current league IGN: Teldra_Anc_LAD Feel free to message me in game if I'm on.	Posted by grimjack68#6087 on May 30, 2020, 4:17:34 AM Quote this Post
" Zweetsok wrote: I've only seen relatively medicore damage numbers from cyclone-arc builds while ARC/EK builds go through the roof. Not sure where the love for cyclone is coming from as it definitely feels very slow to me. I've been testing this exact thing for a few days now. Same character, same tree, same jewels, swapped out Doryani's boots & Bated breath for tailwind boots and crystal belt both with increased cooldown reduction. Also dropped Clarity as I don't need it to maintain mana for Cyclone, and I needed the extra gem slot due to losing Doryani's boots. My numbers: self cast arc with vaal haste: 168 million self cast arc without vaal haste: 101 million My Cyclone / arc: 114 million If 114 million is mediocre in your opinion, that's fine I guess. And admittedly, there are guys running self cast that are pushing 700+ million, but not on gear that costs under 1k ex. (And I'm nowhere near 1k ex, for the record.) Current league IGN: Teldra_Anc_LAD Feel free to message me in game if I'm on.	Posted by grimjack68#6087 on May 30, 2020, 4:25:49 AM Quote this Post
" facelessman122 wrote: " Zweetsok wrote: I've only seen relatively medicore damage numbers from cyclone-arc builds while ARC/EK builds go through the roof. Not sure where the love for cyclone is coming from as it definitely feels very slow to me. Thats a shame for you, not my experience at all. My clearspeed increased as did my boss killing. I prefer the playstyle and have had no issue with all content. Maybe it was more a gear issue for yourself unless you've just looked at path of building. Calling the dps mediocre is abit ridiculous, outside of herald stacking its sky high. Heh... IMHO, it's sky high period, dead stop. If the numbers posted here and in game chat are any indication, there's a very small percentage of HS characters that are breaking the 100m mark. It seems higher than it is because over half of the active players in league right now are playing herald stacking characters. In many years of playing, I've never seen a meta take over the game THIS hard. Tons of folks can work with a build guide, although there's a decent percentage that don't even do that well. Not many understand the logic behind the guide, and precious few understand it well enough to change it to fit their playstyle or preference, never mind improve on it. Current league IGN: Teldra_Anc_LAD Feel free to message me in game if I'm on. Last edited by grimjack68#6087 on May 30, 2020, 4:31:58 AM	Posted by grimjack68#6087 on May 30, 2020, 4:30:28 AM Quote this Post