[3.15]Archmage Ball Lightning Hierophant, will it work in Expedition?

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SkylerOG wrote:

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Saieli wrote:

When going for 21 corrupted gems - in which order are the most impactful ones (I just finished Ball Lightning).

Raising these gems from 20 to 21 gives you:

Ball Lightning = ~1.4% more dmg
Archmage = ~1.4% more dmg,
Arcane Cloak = ~1.3% more dmg and ~1.6% more EHP
GMP = ~1.4% more dmg (map clearing)
Slower Proj = ~0.8% more dmg (bosses)
Vaal Righteous Fire or Righteous Fire = ~0.8% more dmg
Conductivity/Elemental Weakness = ~0.9% more dmg (curse dependent)
Projectile Weakness = ~0.8% more dmg (curse dependent)
Controlled Destruction = ~0.7% more dmg (non-crit build/instead of LP)
Lightning Pen = ~0.7% more dmg (crit build/instead of CD)
>>> [if you're going Unleash then ignore CD/LP]
Elemental Focus = ~0.6% more dmg
Spell Echo = ~0.6% more DPS and ~0.6% faster cast speed (overall DPS, not average hit)
Arcane Surge = ~0.6% more DPS and ~0.4% faster cast speed (overall DPS, not average hit)
Zealotry = 0.2% difference (only if crit build)
Wrath = 0% difference
Unleash = 0% difference (only slightly faster Seal regeneration, which is actually quite meaningful if you're an Unleash build)

I have no idea how you pull these numbers - but thank you so much for sharing. I figured Archmage was the 2nd choice (as it scaled with total mana).

Thanks mate!

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Saieli wrote:

I have no idea how you pull these numbers - but thank you so much for sharing. I figured Archmage was the 2nd choice (as it scaled with total mana).

Thanks mate!

I just went into my PoB and looked at what the differences were when I changed them between gem levels 20 and 21.

I kinda needed to do this for myself anyways as I'm pretty deep into the min-maxing aspect of the build currently and trying to figure out where I can squeak out incremental damage increases.

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Edit: I just ran the Thread of Hope scenario through PoB, and I can do better without it.

The additional cast speed isn't that big of a deal for me. I don't ever just stand there stationary holding down my BL key. I cast my 7 BL's and strafe, then cast 7 BL's and strafe again, etc. etc. And the difference in animation speed is like 0.21 vs 0.19 seconds. It's virtually unnoticeable. The average hit doesn't go up, and the overall DPS is about +10%.

Meanwhile, I can put those points towards Throatseeker or Doom Cast and add 12-16% more damage, instead, with the same point expenditure.

And, I don't have to worry about making up for the lost resistances from ToH..

Wait, shouldn't it be point neutral?
You gain:
+1 Int travel node
+3 Curse nodes
+1 Suboptimal first node on Serpent Stance cluster
=5
You loose:
-3 to take the jewel
-1 Dark Arts
-1 Mental Rapidity

I understand if the -10 res might still not be worth it, but I would imagine the 50% Mana Reg to be decent? Well, I hope to be able to try it out soon.

I posted about thread of hope a couple days ago. I'm currently using in league, since a small ring with -10 resists is only like 30c, especially with the insane crafts available to us currently to help pick up extra resistance. I picked up mental rapidity, dark arts, whispers of doom and thunderous salvos. the 4th unleash seal isn't always generated, but when it does it's a bit of extra damage so maybe worth the passive point, i also don't mind the 30% crit chance to help proc EO.

Right now i'm trying to perfect a pair of gloves. (double resist, t3 life currently (working on replacing), blind on hit, frenzy on kill, and mana.

Have a redeemer stygian that i'm trying to roll mana recovery on, but that mod is more stubborn than my wife.

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kaktus99 wrote:

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Edit: I just ran the Thread of Hope scenario through PoB, and I can do better without it.

The additional cast speed isn't that big of a deal for me. I don't ever just stand there stationary holding down my BL key. I cast my 7 BL's and strafe, then cast 7 BL's and strafe again, etc. etc. And the difference in animation speed is like 0.21 vs 0.19 seconds. It's virtually unnoticeable. The average hit doesn't go up, and the overall DPS is about +10%.

Meanwhile, I can put those points towards Throatseeker or Doom Cast and add 12-16% more damage, instead, with the same point expenditure.

And, I don't have to worry about making up for the lost resistances from ToH..

Wait, shouldn't it be point neutral?
You gain:
+1 Int travel node
+3 Curse nodes
+1 Suboptimal first node on Serpent Stance cluster
=5
You loose:
-3 to take the jewel
-1 Dark Arts
-1 Mental Rapidity

I understand if the -10 res might still not be worth it, but I would imagine the 50% Mana Reg to be decent? Well, I hope to be able to try it out soon.

It is point-neutral, but I was getting caught up on the ~5% damage loss, though, and was adding passives to compensate for that.

And unfortunately there's not a single or two small passives anywhere that really make up for that conveniently.

I know 5% doesn't sound like much, but if I'm going to spend 10-15 exalts on upgrading gems just to squeak out a few more percent damage, then it chaps my ass to throw it away just to get some more mana regen and negligible cast speed when I'm not really having mana issues.

I'm still considering it, however, because the small ToH also allows us to snag Thunderous Salvos. And even though I'm doing fine with 7 BL's, that 8th one, even if it's not always there due to seal regeneration, might still be nice to add for the times it is there because that's a crap-ton of more damage when it is.

I gotta figure out how to fix my resists though if I do this. Probably going to have to spend a small fortune on a new jewel with + to all resists.

I see! Well I'm nowhere near the top of the optimization. Currently have only farmed 2/9 Pledge of Hand.

Yes, Im SSF :)

Loving this craft league though. I was looking at cluster jewels trying to figure what to try and craft for.

Im a little starved for skill points so Im thinking just a large/small or medium/small.

Anyone know exactly what the interaction is between awakened spell echo and greater spell echo with regards to the chance for double damage?

Is it on the 1st echo that's +35% more damage? (because that's the spell echo support echo)

Or is it on the 3rd echo that's +105% more damage? (because that's technically the "final" echo, BUT, it belongs to GSE and not spell echo support)


If it's on the GSE final echo, then that last BL would be insane.

I'm doing 678k average hit with 33 AoE radius. So if that last BL echo gets double damage on top of 105% more damage and 150% AoE, we're talking ~2M damage per hit for 13 hits at a radius of 50. That's about 26M damage just from that one single final BL.

That's pretty nuts.


BUT, that obviously depends on if awakened spell echo means it's echo or GSE's final echo. Anyone know?

Okay so for anyone interested, I'm going to try and create a formula for us to find out what our actual Damage Per Cast is.

The PoB isn't really accurate, especially for those of us who use Unleash, because PoB tries to average out the Greater Spell Echo more damage modifier across the board (it inputs +52%), while this really only applies to the 3 echo's (not the 1st BL or Unleashed BL's), while at the same time it does not account for the less damage modifier from Unleash at all (which only applies to the Unleashed BL's).

In other words, you can't just go ((Number of BL's * 13 hits per BL) * Average Hit) = Damage Per Cast.


So to do this properly, there are some steps to take:

1. a = ("PoB Average Hit" * 0.48) [this is BL#1]

2. b = ((a * ((100 - "Unleash Less Damage %")/100)) * "Number of Unleash Seals") [exclude b from final equation if you don't use Unleash]

3. c = ("PoB Average Hit" * 0.83) [this is Echo#1]

4. d = ("PoB Average Hit" * 1.18) [this is Echo#2]

5a. e = ("PoB Average Hit" * 1.53) [this is Echo#3 less double damage. use this if you don't have awakened spell echo]

5b. e = (("PoB Average Hit" * 1.53) * (1 + ("Awakened Spell Echo Chance to Deal Double Damage" / 100))) [this is Echo#3 with awakened spell echo]


Then the final formula for "Damage Per Cast" is:

DPC = ((a + b + c + d + e) * 13)


And then simple enough for the DPS calculation:

DPS = (DPC/2)



>>> This is all also assuming you have 20/20 slower proj slotted, an AoE radius of at least 33, and you're standing somewhere around 32-33 units from the target when you cast.

You have some leeway on this AFTER your 1st BL and any Unleash BL's launch, as the 3 echo's have an additional +50%, +100%, and +150% AoE, respectively. Which means that with normal 33 AoE radius, the target can be upwards of 52 units away from your last BL and it will still hit it. Which really helps if you are fighting something that is moving and not stationary.

>>> This also assumes that if you are using Unleash, you are not continually standing stationary just chain-casting BL. That you are instead launching a single cast/burst, then moving/waiting for seals to regenerate to full, and then re-launching another cast, and that's your continual process.


Edit: I forgot to add, that if you anoint your amulet with Adjacent Animosity (-10% projectile speed), you only need 28 AoE radius to reach the 13 hit per BL limit.

How is this build performing this league? Is it still good?

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Ryztard wrote:

How is this build performing this league? Is it still good?

you just need to read the main post ...

Current POB
https://pastebin.com/6Di9PAtA
Lv95 in Harvest, 20M shaper DPS